bitten by the Bug again
 

Hello to all!

Lugerforums was my second Gun Forum ( HiPowers are my LOVE ;-)), but somehow I got distracted ... got a SEVERE case of BRD ( Black Rifle Disease ), and besides, I have a Stress Job, Children, am a Hunter ...

After my Mauser Parabellum of 1976 or 77, in BNIB condition I didn´t look for Lugers for a loooong time.

Then Lightning struck.

I don´t know why, but suddenly last Year I started looking for a Navy 6" Luger.

One sold at an Auction for a solid € 3400. VERY nice IMO.

And today, in an act of total mental disease I bought one myself.

1918, DWM, 6" Barrel, strawed parts, but reblued, markings somewhat shallow ( ??? ) ( I am no Expert ), seems to be done by a Master, though.

One matching number nickeled mag with Wood base with concentric rings.

somewhat shallow rifling, IMO.

NEW REPRO RIG, with black Holster attached to wooden stock, sling, double mag pouch, was included. cleaning rod, too, no tool.

Pic of Original Unit to which it was issued, with Name of WW II ancestor, which preserved the gun until 1988, then sold it to my Seller.

Didn´t shoot it yet.

Will try for pix.

What should I look out for, I want to shoot it, since it´s reblued, occasionally, with Lapua Luger Load only.

Shalll I get replacement FP, FP Spring, Recoil Spring, Extractor, Grips ( of course keeping the original parts! ) and shoot it occasionally?

Thanks for any Input, Hermann

Hi Hermann, There is no such thing as an original 1918 dated Navy Luger. Several fake 1918 Navy Lugers were turned out here in the US over 10 years ago, and I hope the "1918" is just a typo on your part and not one of these.
Regards, Norm

Hernmann:
Can you post photos?
That may help.
dju

i have a bad Feeling already.

DWM on Toggle

1918 on Receiver.

NO Markings on backstrap???

I´ll take pix ...soon!

Hi Hermann, The absence of unit marks on the back strap is not an issue. They were officially discontinued in 1916 and are seldom seen on late guns. You might find this thread interesting, it's a discussion of another 1918 dated "Navy".
Regards, Norm
http://luger.gunboards.com/showthrea...ight=1918+Navy

I´ll try
 

http://i261.photobucket.com/albums/i...2000_26_30.jpg

http://i261.photobucket.com/albums/i...2000_25_02.jpg

http://i261.photobucket.com/albums/i...2000_24_29.jpg

http://i261.photobucket.com/albums/i...2000_23_48.jpg

http://i261.photobucket.com/albums/i...2000_23_14.jpg

why do people boost straw parts?????

Front frame numbers photo?
dju

I gotta tell ya..those Crowns are floating like they have helium in them...

tomorrow.

The front number is VERY shallow. It matches the bottom of the mag ( on Wood ). Last number 61 everywhere.

What do you all think??????

Have I been taken?

The Navy rear sight is a fake too..

The picture of the rear grip strap..the wooden grip does not fit at all..It should be flush and flat.

I am curious to know something..in several photo's it appears the top cannon is jutting out beyond the frame just slightly. Will this pistol koch and fire?

Usually if the top comes forward of the frame it throws the trigger lever away from the sear and the pistol is unable to fire.

What you paid will determine if you got taken. The one thing you didn't get , in my opinion, is an original Navy. This one screams at you. Might make a good $800 shooter. Can you get your money back? Bill

Hi Hermann, Yes, I'm afraid so. If it helps any, you're in good company, several very experienced collectors have been had too. Just for the record, please let us know the full, four digit serial number. Is there a suffix letter below the serial number on the front of the frame?
Regards, Norm

how about a nice photo of the navy proofs?

The Pistol cocks and I have dry fired it.

Yes , i have been taken, i paid much more ... of course, the ad and pix and description are away ... I doubt I´ll get my Money back, as the seller always said "I bought it in that condition in 1988, changed nothing, and seldom fired it" .

Of course I printed the ad and know where he lives, but he never claimed it to be totally original.

My greed.

I´ve been lusting for one since Long ...

:-(

:-/

Hermann

P.S.: yes. I should have walked out of the house, wait for his reaction, and post the pix at this Forum before ... I know

I am sorry, what do you mean with that?

Hermann

http://i261.photobucket.com/albums/i...2011_25_21.jpg

http://i261.photobucket.com/albums/i...2011_24_25.jpg

did I mention, that there is a nickeled mag ( in not so good cond ) with the gun, same Serial No "2961 a" on the wooden base, which has concentric rings on the "knobs"?

Thanks to all, but I feel rather frustrated at the Moment.

Hermann

Herman, he means that the crown proofs are freshly struck and are clearly phony.

Hi Hermann, "Floating Crowns" are a descriptive term used by collectors to describe the Naval crown/M inspection marks on some early fake Navy Lugers. The crowns seem to float above the M's (second photo). A "Nested Crown" describes an inspection mark on a genuine gun where the crown seems to be sitting on the M (first photo). Unfortunately, since this distinction was discussed on the forums several years ago, most of the more recently faked Navies have nested crowns too.
As a collector whose first Navy Luger was also a fake (I now own 14 genuine ones!), I think I know how you feel. Use this as a learning experience, buy some reference books or read through the Archive section of the Navy Forum, right here on this website. I read every last post, it took many hours but I've found that it was time well spent!
Best regards, Norm

I am puzzled by this also...With the locking bolt ['takedown lever'] in 'locked' position it should not be possible for barrel extension ['receiver'] to stick out like that... :confused:

I have recently read of a mismatch like that, but it was on a pistol with a ground down extension lug...Maybe your lug is ground??? Or maybe the locking bolt has metal removed???

I think that you paid too much, and I would be more concerned with that, than with whether it is a reproduction or original...But I am not a collector, and if I were shopping for a 'Navy', I would be happy with this repro...But only if it was offered for about 1/3 what your price was...

Edit: I combined the two pics of the C/M's to compare 'floating' with 'nested', and now that I look at the front of the frame, I wonder if perhaps the frame was shaved to remove the original serial number...

Oh God!

I look at the front of the frame, I wonder if perhaps the frame was shaved to remove the original serial number...It is one or the other..a shaved frame as you say or a ground off lug.

You say the pistol kocks and fires so it can only be that the front of the frame was shaved off along with the old serial number and re numbered.

I'm in agreement it looks like the frame was shaved to remove the original serial number.

Hello!

No, I just said, it dry fires.

I wonder when and how to fire that Piece ...

Lether Gloves, Glasses, but Hand with gun Held behind a tree, so only my Hand ( in strong gloves ) is "present" to the gun ...

H

It is just my opinion, but since there is evidence that the serial number was removed & re-stamped, I think you may have a good case of fraud/stolen goods...Since you have quite a bit of money invested, I would ask the seller for a full refund, and if he refuses, I would seek legal counsel. :rolleyes:

I would suggest you let your wife fire it first.

Who said chivalry is dead?

I concur with all of the above assessments regarding this gun being NOT a genuine Navy. But request that you NOT take George Anderson's suggestion. (GEORGE !!!)

The gun is a shooter, not a collectible.

I would strongly suggest you try to follow Sheepherder's advice.

George
You do come up with some good ideas. She didn't hear that did she?? Bill

Out here in the West we duck tape the pistol to an old tire, tie a string around the trigger and give her a big yank. Saves wear and tear on the Lady of the house and the subsequent vet bills. Or you could casually hand it to someone you don't know at the range..HEY! ever wanta shoot a Luger?

Gee Whiz; how do you guys treat your friends?
Jack

The same. When I re-chambered my XP-100 to .223 Remington, I handed it to 'Mad Mark' and told him it was fun to shoot... :rolleyes:

I just held my barrel-bulged Artillery sort of around a corner, closed my eyes and let 'er rip. Turns out she's a great shooter.
dju

Has anyone even mentioned the fact that the lower frame is stamped 1916 and the upper is dated 1918? Yest they have the same serial number? Sheesh Arminius, I am so sorry you bought this one... might as well shoot the heck out of it...

Hi John, Hermann's frame is not dated 1916, it is undated. The photos of 1916 dated guns were posted by me to illustrate the notorious "floating crown" Naval inspection marks.
Regards, Norm

Ahhh. Thanks for the clarification... I had just glanced at the photos and didn't notice the disctinction...

I have never owned a Navy... but have handled many. I was personally schooled in the art of boosted Navy detection by none other than the late Tom Armstrong... a Navy Luger collector extraordinaire...

Getting to see and handle his collection was a privilege I shall never forget.

I asked to undo the deal, and he refused.

It´s buyer beware, and I did not look good enough.

I am not going to let somebody else shoot that gun, until it´s safe, tested by some rounds.

As I said, thick Leather gloves, Hunting jacket, Gun held around a Corner, one round loaded no mag in it ...

Just to determine, if it´s a shooter.

I am sure, 9 mm Go / No Go Gauges would help, but nobody except the "Beschussamt" has these there.

Going there is meaning gun will possibly be marked "non shooter" - so no choice.

I am through with Lugers.

Hermann

Not sure what Beschussamt is but why not simply buy a set of Go, No-Go guages and leave everyone else out of it.
Sorry that your Luger experience has been difficult.
dju

Hi Hermann, I too am sorry that you have been victimized, but if it helps any, most experienced Luger collectors, if they are honest, will admit that they too have been cheated in the past. I know I have.
The ground area on the front of the frame should not be a safety issue, most of the stress on Luger frames is towards the rear. That said, it's always a good idea to take sensible precautions when shooting an old gun for the first time.
Regards, Norm

if you have a gun range with a gunsmith in the business, they might have a gun vice that allows a pistol to be secured and it can be test fired from a safe distance with a trigger pull string-cord.