First Post, and an Open Ended Question
 

This is indeed my first post, although I have spent some time going through the forums. And here's the open ended question: how would you recommend finding and choosing a good shooter? (Yes, I did see the FAQ.) I already own a number of guns -- some collectors and some shooters -- but I do not own any based on the Parabellum design. In the future I may go in a collecting direction, but for now I just want something I can put some rounds through. For example, how substantial is the risk that a mismatched gun is going to have reliability issues? Any other input? Thank you in advance.

David,
Keep a eye on the for sale section...I have seen a lot of nice shooter for sale there. I am putting together a parts Gun, and it is much cheaper to buy a shooter all together. When you find a shooter ask all the question you can think of, Shape of Bore, How the head spacing, Etc.
Hope this helps :cheers:

pappers1

Hi if you hit 'general information on the left of the opening screen you will find all the answers you need! Most like my self didn't even know its there~~ TKS Ted Green!! Eric

Hi David,
please check your personal mail here on the forum
thanks
Bill

David, welcome to the forum.

This isn't self promotion. In general you will find the best market for Lugers on a board like this, especially if being sold or bought by a long time member with some track record.

Pricing is generally fair here since you're not paying for a dealer's overhead and professional profit. Insist on a multi-day non-firing inspection period with right of return for full refund.

Gun shows are hit and miss. You can occasionally find good buys on righteous Lugers, but most often I've seen inferior offerings way over priced.

Try and find an all matching Mauser era Luger with finish conditions. These are great shooters.

Marc

Marc said it all. Every one of mine was purchased from a member or associated with! I wish I had relatives so nice and trusting!! PS There is never enough! Something like luger hoarding!! Eric

Easy. Tell the seller that you need test firing. If it's not working, you have to return it. For mismatched or reblued gun, seller should not object test fire it, make a video, and send it to you for evaluation, or allows you to test fire a box from it.

"3-day non-firing inspection" -- by looking at it, you won't know. For collectible firearms, the inspection focuses on correctness, finish, numbering, marking etc. None of those tells you it works or not. If it's a mismatched or reblued, you virtually inspect nothing that way.

OK so first -- thank you, everyone, for all of your responses. That is some very good information. I went over the FAQ again (more closely) and picked up even more good info there. Here are a couple additional things to throw at you.

First is that an inspection period is not that viable for me - owing to restrictive laws here in NY. I can't actually take possession of a handgun until I get an amended pistol license that lists the new gun - which is generally a minimum of a 2 week turnaround time. So . . . it is all that much more important to have a good and credible seller.

The second is that I just sort of like old things. From a collector point of view -- and again, this is supposed to be a shooter -- I generally find earlier versions and models to be more interesting. There are a lot of older DWM's available out there - what about them, versus the Mausers? And what about a .30 Luger gun - obviously locating ammo would be more of an issue, but is a .30 Luger gun less likely to have been beat up with "hot" 9mm loads?

Thanks again for the welcome and the input everyone.

A lot of people will say that the "Mauser' is newer and built better.

I don't know, I am sure that is true, but the DWM's and my Erfurt artillery shoot fine :)

Ask if they have shot it. I have sold many shooters 'as-is' simply because I bought it with something else and sold it as a 'shooter category'. Not buyer beware, but the truth :)

Anyway, as said above, ask if they have shot it - some of our guys have put a lot of effort into their 'shooters' and they are great shooters.

Buy a 9mm - much cheaper to shoot and ammo is much easier to find. Yes you can find Fioci (sp) for a decent price, but still about 2.5x the price of a box of Winchester white box....

If you are interested in pre-WWII Lugers I would suggest you buy one of those, the whole old-gun game is about what appeals to you personally. The WWII guns are reputed to be slightly stronger and use better metal, but many people successfully shoot the older guns.

The most plentiful Lugers are commercial versions built roughly 1920-1930 by DWM. Plentiful = lower price. The commercials are almost always chambered in .30 Luger. That cartridge is more expensive and best purchased via the internet, I have yet to see anyone carrying it in a retail store. There are also many older 9mm guns. I saw a fair to good condition all matching WWI Erfurt this weekend at a gun show for $900.

Sources are the two Lugar boards, reputable internet sellers like Simpsons and Legacy (there are others), gun shows and retail stores. and finally the auction sites. IMO I have listed them in order of utility to a newbie. Guns shows, retail stores and auctions are a jungle with many overpriced/ lower condition specimens, but the occasional find can be had.

Simpson deserves special mention. They are full retail in price, but have a stellar reputation and a big inventory. I view them as you pay a slight premium for selection and piece of mind that the gun that arrives will not surprise you in a bad way. They do have very good 'shooters' from time to time but the good ones go fast. They had two fine WWII era shooters at $995 and $1,200 recently; sadly I did not act fast enough and missed them. IMO they have some good DWM shooters right now.

You pose a very good question re: asking if .30 beats the gun up less. I would say that is probably correct. I believe 9mm and .30 Lugers are exactly the same action, the only difference is the barrel caliber and the chamber, so it stands to reason that a .30 gun has been stressed a little less.

My own experience is I have an all-matching shooter and a mismatched shooter. Both function well, the mis-matched one may even function a bit better (I bought it from a forum member who also works on Lugers, Tom Heller). The mis-match has an older DWM toggle, which I think is kind of neat. It functions great.

Patience and knowledge are key. Get the knowledge here and via books, and be prepared to spend a few weeks and maybe more looking. Good luck and good hunting.

First of all welcome to our forum of Luger enthusiasts.
I think you've already got plenty of information, so I'm sure you won't need my opinion, still if I were you I would buy a good shooter, preferably not too old, I mean something WWII period caliber 9mm nothing special just a gun to practice some shooting at the range and to practice taking down and assembly at home when you clean it.
Since I love shooting as well as collecting I would advice you not to use modern high speed cartrdiges in old guns.
Enjoy your Luger, but most of all shoot safe.

Sergio

If you can go 7.65mm, the best choice is DWM pistols made in 1920s. Cheap. No need to go a reblue/mismatch in this case. Original is not more expensive than Interarms. Since Luger was an important pistol in history, even non-Luger collector can get a 7.65mm DWM for its look & feel and structure study without affecting future budget much. The structure is same with other basic 9mm models, except caliber and spring strength. The only drawback is not easy to find ammo. So it cost more to do performance evaluation on 7.65mm pistol. If you reload, probably no problem. And, it's a genuine Luger.

Just a thought regarding your location and circumstances...If distance and the NY gun laws are an issue on the testing of a potential shooter that you want to buy, you could ask the seller to make a video of the actual gun being test fired for a couple of magazines and send the video to you... make sure it includes closeups of the gun showing actual serial numbers so you know what you see is what you get...

Welcome to the Lugerforum. :)

One of my friend wants to send his daughter to a high school which is very strong on dancing. The school has a lot of applicants so they are very picky, "want to evaluate she has potential or not". Tens of thousands miles away, how to evaluate? Nowadays, the popular way is asking applicant to upload a short dancing video to youtube.com, then email school the link. If school feels good, they will ask applicant coming over for an interview. Otherwise, parent and kid save tickets.

That's a hint.

Thanks for the additional input -- I am impressed with the depth of knowledge available here. I am continuing to think about what to do . . .

I pulled the trigger
 

I've been watching the ads for a while . . . A local shop posted one for sale, so I went down and checked it out. It was an Erfurt that was mostly matching, except for the slide and barrel (which were replaced with a matched set with a "G" barrel code). The barrel had a curious threading arrangement, but the price was otherwise good, so I figure I can work that out in the future. Everything looked good and operated well, and the finish on the frame looked original (although the barrel/slide look like they have been buffed) so I dropped the cash. I'll post pictures in a couple weeks when I can actually pick it up.

Congrats on your first luger. Emphasis on first :-) they are addictive. It's the thrill of the hunt

You never forget your First!!!

Please post pics of that. Luger barrel threads devour quite a bit of my free time... :)

Here you go . . .

http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y14...pswta23toq.jpg

Unfortunately this is the best picture I have for now - but there is also a protrusion on the top of the barrel at the back of the threaded section that has what appears to be an index mark on its center. You can see the edge of this protrusion in this picture, but nothing more. The more I think about it, the more I am interested to learn the origin of this interesting machining. Whoever did it, it took some time and attention to detail.

Oh boy. That is not good news. :(

I'll let someone else elaborate on that.

The interrupted thread is interesting. Don't see those very often. This 'style' of barrel has been discussed here several times, with different opinions as to what threads on the barrel.

You could likely find a machinist who can make you a replica of a Luger front sight band & blade to thread on your barrel, but it might be easier & cheaper to just buy another barrel and have it installed.

What did the seller tell you the threaded muzzle was for??? :D

When I bought the gun I anticipated replacing the barrel - so it's not actually bad news. After I left the shop I found myself wondering what that interrupted threading was actually for and whether it has any independent collector value -- it is definitely not some billy bob hack job. Unless there is some collector value that attaches to it, my plan is still just to replace the barrel and make a good shooter of it. To answer your question, the seller speculated that it was for attaching a suppressor - but the seller was just an FFL who had picked this up from a guy at a show a while back. Certainly the interruption of the threads indicates that the idea was to allow for quick attachment . . .

Or it could be for a sub-caliber insert. Not all were made by Erma - some may have attached differently.

If the thread is Metric, it may be an original German accessory. Not necessarily military, but something for civilian use. Suppressors are legal in several European countries, I'm told.

Yes, I have a friend who has a non-Erma sub-caliber insert. (It was I who told him what it was.)

Here are the essential details - there is an Erfurt frame that matches all of the parts except for the slide, barrel, and magazine. Then the slide and barrel are matching and have a G date code. (To clarify, the breechblock and extractor match the frame.) The slide appears to have been refinished - the proof marks were a little dished out from a quickie buff job. However, the frame and its related parts appear to have their original finish. The import is that someone took the original Erfurt gun (complete) and then fitted this new barrel slide assembly, but otherwise used all of the original parts.

There are no import marks on the gun. The seller had the impression that it was a WWII bring back. I did not see any Third Reich proof marks, but I was not looking close. And like I said, the proof marks on the side of the slide were not 100% clear.

What I am wondering is whether this is some sort of factory rework that was put together for (presumably) a silencer. Did a GI come into possession of it and bring it back sans silencer?

I searched for posts discussing threaded barrels and didn't really find much that was helpful . . .

I'll measure the threads when I can pick up the gun. I am betting they are metric.

Another option is that the gun was modified to a movie prop. It could have a cap screwed on with a very small hole to balance the blast and then fire blanks. With the hole small enough that the blanks would just cycle the toggle, but not look too odd for the movies or stress the action. HOWEVER, I would expect such a solution to have regular threads, no need for an 'interrupted set.' Alternately, is there a movie/ TV show that shows very quick placement of a (false) silencer on the front for a scene?

Does your front site and ring look like this? This looks like it has 'interrupted threads' for the silencer.
http://www.warhistoryonline.com/war-...ssination.html

I downloaded the picture and zoomed in as much as I could and it looks like it is the same - but there is only so much you can see in that picture. The ring to the rear of the interrupted threads has a "high" area on the top of the ring that looks like the same "high" area you can see on this picture when you zoom in.

The seller had a couple accessories that I am thinking about buying - so if I head down there again in the next couple days I will take some good quality pictures of the muzzle threads and post them.

Yup. I just adopted a second - renumbered 1908 DWM with a good bore, a worn finish, and (appropriately) no lug. Needs new grips - which I am about to post about separately. The price was right and I couldn't resist. Two shooter/project grade guns will give me plenty to work on.

We have a member here, Gerald Tomak (G.T.) that replaces barrels, and can probably help you with your first Luger.

Let me know if I can help you with a pair or reproduction wood grips.

Marc

At this point I'm planning to change the barrel myself - I have done this before with other guns, I have 9mm go and no-go gauges, and I am getting a proper action wrench. I am looking for a good condition takeoff though, preferably in a 100 mm length that will be consistent with the original configuration of the gun.

Now as for reproduction grips - the question i wanted to post is whether there is anyone who is making reproduction wood grips using highly figured (e.g. Turkish) walnut - or alternatively, whether there is anyone I could ship nice blanks to and have them cut. Any ideas?

Hugh Clark (do a search for his contact info) enjoys an excellent reputation for grip work. He worked on a grip for me and i was highly pleased. I don't know if he does the work you are interested in.

I got back in town and was pleasantly surprised to see that my purchase authorization had come. I haven't had much time to research this (this week is busy) but I did take a few pictures. Bottom line - it seems unlikely that this barrel modification was performed by a factor or an armorer:
http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y14...psl7n0d13g.jpg

But I am still curious to figure out what I can. The extension and barrel match each other ('276) and this shows the 3 proof marks on the right side of the extension (which show obvious signs of refinishing):
http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y14...psy1ka261i.jpg

There is one proof on the right side of the barrel, which has almost been obliterated by someone with a buffing wheel:
http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y14...psjgkb50ej.jpg

Bottom side:
http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y14...psugyskouo.jpg

And of course that crazy muzzle:
http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y14...psn6w3skbi.jpg
http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y14...psibw5aqqh.jpg

Note apparent index line on top:
http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y14...psal0b2l88.jpg

Finally here are the proof marks visible on the front of the frame. Unlike the extension and barrel, the frame does not look refinished (except that some idiot put cold blue on the gun):
http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y14...psk3ckvd5n.jpg
http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y14...pspyshc0w5.jpg

BTW am I correct that this suffix is "p"?
http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y14...psobspuinl.jpg

Also BTW - the headspacing is on - it closes on a "go" but not a "no-go." I was going to put a few rounds through it the next time I can get an hour or so free.

OK the extension and barrel are from a G date Mauser with W154 and S92 stamps - not too hard to figure that part out. I say the mod isn't original because there are no proof marks from after the refinish - that makes me think that someone stateside turned down and threaded the barrel, and then buffed and blued it and the extension. Although I suppose it's possible that the threading was an original wartime mod and someone just decided to reblue it at some point in the future -- it just seems unlikely.

What I'm more interested in is the rest of the gun. All of the remaining parts appear to match. The number "13" is stamped several places, like the back side of the trigger plate. Is this a 1913 Erfurt? How could you tell what year it is from?

no

numbers on the rear 'can be' related to the sn of some years (See FAQ)

Otherwise, they are just numbers or last two of the serial number

Looking very close you can sometimes tell what manufacturer made it / i.e DWM, Mauser, Kreighoff, while Erfurt and Simson parts are acceptance stamped (not proofed in most cases)

Great discussion but one thing occured to me after reading findings as follows, If you have a luger with multible serial numbers on frame and barrel with multimatching parts which one is controlling in record keeping and the Feds happy? Eric

I'd say that the number in front of the trigger guard is the one for the bound books. That lower receiver is what constitutes the "gun" in the case of the Luger.
dju

My main question is whether there is a "stop" designed into the interrupted threads? In other words, would anything placed and turned on it stop, or can you continue to turn until you can remove whatever was placed on there?
If there is no "stop" designed into the threads, I very much doubt it was designed for a suppressor.

One More`` Are all grip screws alike except for the Erfurt proof 'interchangeable' Eric~