9mm ammo
Just bought a case of this stuff and tried some out at the range. Only fired 15 rounds thru my 1936 P08 shooter, but got perfect function and better accuracy than I deserve. No problems in the other three 9's I tried either.
https://www.sgammo.com/product/barna...ox-lacquered-s |
David,
Lugers were not designed for steel cases, as they were designed with a stepped chamber (for one thing). In fact, only brass cased ammo marked "Nur fur Pistole 08", "for P-08 pistols only" was so marked and issued by the Germans throughout WWII. Coupled with, no doubt, overloaded velocity; this ammo could cause you some real mechanical problems, if shot through a Luger regularly. I'd save this ammo for a more modern 9mm pistol. Sieger |
Do all 9mm lugers have "stepped" chambers? My 1939 chamber doesn't seem to have that.
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Major Tom,
Yes, all original Lugers have the stepped chamber, as this was considered an advanced design feature (aids in sealing the case to the chamber walls). Remakes, including the Interarms models from the 1970s and the stainless steel knock-offs do not. I don't know about the new .45 recreations, but I would suspect that they do also. Hope this helps. Sieger |
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Kurusu,
Perhaps. I've "read" this too, somewhere, but have never been able to verify it. Can an expert here verify this claim, through an actual, physical chamber examination of a byf 42? Also, I haven't been able to locate any original German text documentation supporting this. Thanks! Sieger |
I'm no "expert" but I have looked at late Mauser chambers that do not have the step.
The drawing or order showing its elimination is in the Goertz and Sturgess book,IIRC; but I have seen it in the original form somewhere. |
Out of curiosity I just inspected my 1942 byf s/n 2611g and it has a stepped chamber. Per Hallock and van de Kant in The Mauser Parabellum, this s/n is about mid-point of the 1942 production run. My '36, '38, and '40 Mausers also have stepped chambers.
Another concern vs. the ammo in the OP would be if the primers are corrosive or not. |
"Another concern vs. the ammo in the OP would be if the primers are corrosive or not."
Non-corrosive primers, standard velocity, 115 gr. FMJ, and it functions perfectly. But by all means, go ahead and rationalize spending twice as much for what is functionally the same thing. After all, it's your money. dju |
If the round chambers correctly and the specs are correct I can't see how this would damage a Luger.
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Even if the initial signs are good, I would not put any Russian crap in my guns. Not only because of poor QA, but also because it's Russian. This particular brand has a tendancy to show up in conflict zones across the globe as well. Preferred supplier of the average terrorist. An economy I don't like to support in any way.
Google MH17 ... |
Yes, you will never find European or American guns or ammunition in conflict zones...
Well, yes, if you find it is only in the hands of the good guys :rolleyes: |
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Actually it's not far from the truth. A few AR style rifles were found in IS territory, but these were mostly show guns for high ranking officers, as they hardly had .223 available.
The Russian ammo was there in abundance, however... even commercial packaged AK ammo from Barnauld and the likes. The fact that the Russian gov't loaned anti aircraft missiles to Ukrainian insurgents who used one to shoot down a Malaysian airliner filled with mostly Dutch holidaymakers and tried to cover this up, rather than accept responsibility for it, doesn't help either. |
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But Vlim really seems to believe it |
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I have purchased a fair amount of ammo from SGAMMO, and have been happy with their operation. Only 1-2 weeks ago, SGAMMO had a two(2) day only sale on PMC 115gr FMJ 9mm ammo, and I couldn't pass it up. This ammo works great in my Lugers and one other ammo sensitive weapon. Glad to hear that your purchase has been a success for you in your weapons.....always a nice feeling to make a good choice!! The price was certainly attractive, and would be popular for 9mm "buzz gun" owners. :) |
I can't really reload FMJ ammo for that price.
It's a win-win. |
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A friend of mine (retired militay) has one of our contract byf 42s (n block). It has conic chambers and it has never been messed with. |
Mauser worked on a request by the army and developed a hand reamer for the job. But since the P08 was already near the end of production in 1942, not much importance was given to the project.
Factory documents on the subject did survive. Portuguese 5012m also has no step. |
Vlim,
As always, very informative!!! Thanks!!! Sieger |
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I have their book, Do you have the chapter and page number? Thanks!! Sieger |
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You assume that the specs are correct for a Luger. Probably (most likely) not. Hot ammo causes breach block slap in Lugers, eventually beating the pistol to destruction. Sieger |
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PMC ammo does not have steel cases and they have advanced quality control. I've shot quite a bit of their ammo over the years, but have experienced some jamming in my Lugers. Sieger |
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A hand reamer would seem to indicate a field modification, not a change in factory barrel design modification. Your thoughts? Sieger |
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Did he purchase his Luger factory new? Thanks!! Sieger |
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Is 15 rounds a realistic test set? On the other hand, if it's only a shooter and not a collector grade Luger, perhaps your reasoning is correct! Sieger |
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Both options were developed. The hand reamer was meant for modifications of existing pistols, while the removal of the step in new pistols was just a minor change in production steps.
The hand reamer was also used to test the effectiveness of the modification. About steel cases, I think the old lacquer coating did more harm than the steel case itself. |
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Thanks!! I knew that you would know!!! Sieger |
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Thanks! Sieger |
I don't pretend to know the square root of eff all about this subject, but two pages and I have yet to hear any concrete reason as to why the OP's ammo would be harmful to a Luger, or any other gun. All I'm reading here is FUD - come on guys, we can do better than this.
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Breach block slap. Sieger |
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I do believe Zorba meant why that particular ammo would cause harm. We have most all seen evidence of "toggle slap", but have no idea whether a few or a few hundred rounds of "hot ammo" caused it- or thousands of rounds of "normal" 9mm P; or a weak mainspring caused the any problem:confused: You and others "assume" it will cause "problems", but without any data or experience with the same ammo to back it up. Without evidence- like published velocity data, or first hand experience; it is all conjecture. Everyone has said- "maybe, could, might, possible"; which sounds like "nervous Nellies" to me.:eek: JMHO. :cheers: |
Yep.
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I'll take both the Russian stuff and some Winchester white box along with a roll of masking tape the next time I go to the range. It will be very unscientific but I'll try to determine if one or the other flattens the tape more violently. 2 or 3 layers of tape across the contact points on the back?
dju |
One layer should do it.
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Of course you can carefully tailor loads that will not do that (around 850 fps with a 124gr bullet will do that, and the pistol will cycle), but they be will well below any militay specs load performance. And the Luger was designed as a militay pistol from the start even those in .30 caliber. |
Context kinda comes to mind.
War weapons, used in war, the longevity of the weapon is not a primary goal, make them cheaply and put as many into your side's hands as possible. Ammo kinda the same to me, steel is easier to procure than brass.........hard on chambers, but............who cares in events like that; as long as it goes bang, what's a little toggle slap or accelerated wear among friends? That same thought process even pertains to the poor individuals behind them, after all, everything or anyone is certainly replaceable in some circles. Everyone has their own thoughts on all of this Luger pistol, Luger ammo, springs, etc. Some think as long as it goes bang, we don't care beyond that. Some that want to preserve what they have, try to use methods that will keep the pistol intact for a while. All pistols break, does not seem logical to me(my own opinion surely) that I should go looking for trouble by ignoring what the pistol is telling me, sorta speak. Barrel steel is relatively soft, is cartridge steel harder or softer?. Perhaps an exercise for the internet google types huh? for those do it yourselfers, rub a piece of cartridge brass on a steel barrel(hopefully a discarded barrel, not your 1900). Then rub a piece of steel cartridge onto the barrel; each until you give up on the possible learning(if any) concept. One might consider using the case sharp mouth as the contact to the barrel, might take longer, smooth on smooth; but to each their own process. Could be just a silly Rick W. snipe hunt.......... :-) Never done it myself, but I can imagine...........and that is still a freedom currently. I shoot Lugers a fair amount, even the ones in stainless that everyone bad mouths, all I can say is that my Lugers, stainless and blue are getting the best I can give them. Not making many anymore, I can see the time where my lamp for these pistols will eventually go out...........but hopefully my Lugers will still function and offer their mystique to the next user says the non collector. As usual............to each their own..............maybe one of our greatest freedoms. |
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