Luger Holster? - Antique Store find (pics)
 

Hi, I hope that you folks can help me to identify this holster that I found at an antique shop yesterday. Is it for a Luger? It appears to be in good condition; No serious damage, flexible leather (not hard/brittle), and definately has been used. I thought I'd take a chance for only $15.

It has some markings on the inside. One is hand-written, while the other is stamped. The stamped writting says "Schirrmeister" - and I can't make out the rest.

Can anyone positively identify this holster? This one has no tool pouch inside, so is it P38 possibly?

I look forward to all your thoughts and opinions. If it is a modern holster, maybe it would make a good reinactors piece, if nothing else.

Thanks!
John

http://home.mn.rr.com/johnrtse/Milit...f/holster1.jpg
http://home.mn.rr.com/johnrtse/Milit...f/holster2.jpg
http://home.mn.rr.com/johnrtse/Milit...f/holster3.jpg
http://home.mn.rr.com/johnrtse/Milit...f/holster4.jpg
http://home.mn.rr.com/johnrtse/Milit...f/holster5.jpg
http://home.mn.rr.com/johnrtse/Milit...f/holster6.jpg

John, It appears you have a holster for the Czech CZ38. It is German made for sure but the closing strap is early. The later P-39 holsters had closures like the P-38 hardshell holsters. Also the back has been modified for shoulder carry. Should have two belt loops.Of course it could have been made that way. The body certainly suggests this as the P-38 is shaped differently at the handle area. Could be a P-38 though. These holsters were very much alike. This seems to have a flap top rather than the molded hardshell. Hard to say because nothing fits exactly. When you look at the back, is there any stamping in the upper right corner? Many of these holsters were marked P-08, P-38 P-39 etc. Nice buy though. Jerry Burney

John, Nice of you to drop by. Welcome to the Lugerforum. It is rare that a new member posts the same day that they register.

Hope you enjoy your time with us.

(Since you prabably don't know. Jerry (lugerholsterrepair) is the moderator of the Luger Holster forum... and enjoys a considerable notariety here and a well deserved reputation as one of the finest if not THE finest Luger leather craftsmen in the world.)

Wow Jerry- Great info! This would compliment a couple of Czech bayonets I own nicely. I was hoping that it was Luger or P38 but.... I guess I may have to find a CZ38 to make the set :)

JS- Very nice forum you folks have here. I just started collecting militaria again after a 15 year hiatus (I had a small collection as a kid, but sold it when I went to college). I've never owned a firearm, but have ALWAYS lusted for a Luger. I will have one someday!

I may not post much, but.... I'll be watching!!!

Thanks again guys!
John

PS. Jerry- Zero other markings other than the ones stamped & written on the inside flap.

John

John S, BLUSH! Thanks for the more than kind compliments.

Johnrtse, Nothing is carved in stone concerning this holster. It could be a post war piece because of the shoulder strap configuration but I think not because of the closure strap and buckle.

It has enough inconsistancies to make one wonder. If it were a P-38 or P-39 wartime it should have a stamp in the back corner...Anyone else out there have an opinion? Jerry Burney

Jerry inform me about P-39 holsters?

(or anyone else)

What is it, what is it for etc.

And dumb question from me.

You can tell a P38 holster by lack of tool holder, what else? When I look on e-bay, what are some differences?

I know, I need to get a beater P38 to play with, <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="wink.gif" />

Ed

Ed, The P-39 hardshell holster was made during the German occupation of Czecholovakia and marked P-39(Still, Axis Pistols Pg. 65) This was to house the Cz38. Almost identicle to the P-38 holster, very slight differences. Marked P-39 inside top or outside back right corner as are P-38's.

The hardshell P-38 holsters are quite different from the P-08's. The lift strap is connected to the top flap and then, to the front top of the holster, stitched on, then the steel closure plate covers it. Some were stitched in without the plate covering them. Easier to replace if broken..The closure system is oval plates with a bent wire slot attached with four steel rivets. The leather strap slips into it. The cutout is quite a bit larger. The magazine pouch is much thicker to accomodate a P-38 mag and there is no half circle cutout as in P-08's because these mags had a lip to grasp. There are other differences but that covers the basics. I hope that was indeed what you were asking...

P-38's are not so expensive as Lugers and I am ashamed to say I do not have one as they do not hold the same mystique for me that Lugers do...I have bought several, fired them and admired them but sold them since I had little interest. Different strokes etc...

I have to mention, Jan Still has had a second printing done and it seems that Axis Pistols is now available for a bargain price. I have spent the last week pouring over this excellent work and my admiration for the genious of Jan still grows every day. If you have not yet sent him the $ for this book you will regret it sooner or later and if you do not already have a copy do not consider yourself well informed. Jerry Burney

Thanks Jerry, that info helps me.

I just made myself spend the money and last summer bought all of Jan's books, actually got two from his few remaining, right before he ran out. Now he has a new run of the books and I agree, if you don't have them, get them. They are well researched and I am impressed with them and his research abilities.

Ed

Ed, There is an excellent example of a Cz38 and holster for sale on Gunbroker...8957870 check it out. Jerry Burney

Checked it out, had never seen one before!

Thanks,

Ed

Added the hot link :

http://www.gunbroker.com/auction/Vie...p?Item=8957870

Regards,

Pete... <img border="0" alt="[typing]" title="" src="graemlins/yltype.gif" />

Jerry B, Rather than being a holster for a CZ38 (these usually have a spacer in the normal P38 sized mag pouch and are normally marked P39(t) inside the flap. I've never heard of one of these marked on the back), I believe that this is a rework (see all the unused stitching holes on back and added should strap rings) of either a Swedish HP (prewar P38) or its commerical equivalent. TH

Tom, Yes, I believe you are right. It is probably not a Cz38. Odd little rascal isn't it? Jerry Burney

Thanks Jerry B! I thought all the extra little holes in the holster were for ventilation. Do you think this rework was performed post-war?

As a side note; I believe what I thought was a STAMPED name "Schirrmeister" is now, I'm certain, very neatly hand printed. Below the name Schirrmeister I can also make out "Hans" and a middle name that starts with an "N". I can't make out the whole middle name.

Thanks again for all the detective work guys!
John

John, Hard to say. I do restoration work every day and if I pick up the holster a week later even I can't tell what I did to it.

The shoulder strap rings are typically post war. It appears that the strap rings are also belt loops. I don't know what came off where the holes are.

I don't know of many if any holsters that have holes for ventalation. Mostly holsters are made to keep out mud, dust dirt, water etc and holes are not good for keeping things out.

Names inscribed in holsters are mostly meaningless. They are the owners, either original or captured. Lots of G.I.'s wrote there names on holsters much to the dismay of collectors later on.

Good luck with your new find! Keep looking, the pleasures in the hunt! Jerry Burney

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Arial,Helvetica,Geneva">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Arial,Helvetica,Geneva">Lots of G.I.'s wrote there names on holsters much to the dismay of collectors later on. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Arial,Helvetica,Geneva">Jerry I imagine you know this, but for new members, GI's put their names on the holster in the hope that it would not "turn" up missing or stolen. From what I have read, most combat vets weren't the ones that brought back tropheys, but REMF's (cooks, supply, admins, hopefully some MP's :D ) and not the poor fighting hero that should have brought them home.

It was a way to mark their property when it was in their duffle bags.

ED

Ed, Right you are! I wonder what REMF's means???Those were the sweethearts in the rear who had a poncho liner and air mattress when you couldn't get one in the field. Still have fond memories of those fellow soldiers! Jerry Burney

The concept of REMF has a way of being directly correlated to where one is; I can recall when anyone in a rifle squad who was behind the slack man (The guy behind the point man, for the uninitiated) would be ribbed as being REMFs. And the guys at the LZ or Firebase, well, we wondered why they were issued weapons.

Tom A.

Very true also Tom.

Being a Combat Support, we called everyone else but grunts a REMF, but I am sure that y'all thought highly of my brothers in (.45 ACP) Arms. :)

Ed