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1900 American Eagle
Gentlemen:
I did a little ole fashioned horse trading yesterday and picked up a 1900 American Eagle. It is SN # 9346, which appears on the front of the frame under the barrel and on the underside of the barrel itself and is stamped "Germany" under the SN on the front of the frame. There are no other markings or proof marks of any kind. All the serial numbers match, including the firing pin and the grips are properly numbered to the gun. The blueing appears to be all original and is at least 98%. The strawed parts unfortunately are approximately 40%. There is a nice golden hue on the strawed parts where they are protected, but the exposed portions show more of a silvery golden color. The magazine is proper for the era and is wood bottom with what I believe is a nickle finish. The appears to be the letter P on the flat edge of the mag ag the bottom near the wooden puller. I'm not sure what this letter signifies, but hopefully someone here can assist me. I have included several photographs for all forum members to review and I would appreciate any and all feedback. I have compared it to examples in "Lugers at Random" and everything appears to be correct. Unfortunately I do not have a copy of Jan Still's book "Imperial Lugers" to gain additional knowledge and use for further comparisons. Again, I would appreciate any and all comments, whether critical or complementary. Thanks to everyone in advance. I was unable to upload the photos as they exceeded the file size of the server. I will send them to Ed and hopefully he can add them to this post. Best Regards, Bob <a href="http://forums.lugerforum.com/lfupload/1010128_img.jpg" target="_fullview"><img src="http://forums.lugerforum.com/lfupload/1010128_img.jpg" width="400" alt="Click for fullsize image" /></a> <a href="http://forums.lugerforum.com/lfupload/1010127_img.jpg" target="_fullview"><img src="http://forums.lugerforum.com/lfupload/1010127_img.jpg" width="400" alt="Click for fullsize image" /></a> <a href="http://forums.lugerforum.com/lfupload/1010129_img.jpg" target="_fullview"><img src="http://forums.lugerforum.com/lfupload/1010129_img.jpg" width="400" alt="Click for fullsize image" /></a> <a href="http://forums.lugerforum.com/lfupload/aerhamilton.jpg" target="_fullview"><img src="http://forums.lugerforum.com/lfupload/aerhamilton.jpg" width="400" alt="Click for fullsize image" /></a> |
Hello Bob, I posted 4 for you a second ago, and we'll leave these up to for extra looking!
Looks like a darn nice piece. I am STILL in your will aren't i? Ed |
That is a really pristine example of a very collectable pistol. I am green with envy :D
Ronnie |
Jeez, Bob, that must be one of the nicest 1900 American Eagles in existence!
--Dwight |
Bob,
That gun is just beautiful! They don't come any nicer than that.You must live right. I can only hope to own one as nice some day. Congratulations! Bill |
Where has that gun been hiding from moisture and handling for the last 104 years? It's condition is unbelievably nice...
As nice as your photos are, I would have a professional photographer take a complete photo essay of it and store this gun in a safe place. Handle it only with cotton gloves and NEVER shoot it... It belongs in a museum or bank vault. What a GREAT find. Mind telling us where you sourced this gem? An estate sale? An Auction? Won it in a card game? All I can say is WOW!! Thanks for sharing it with us. |
Bob, please read you Private messages, I replied to your question there. Thanks
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Gentlemen:
Thanks for all the complementary replies regarding the AE I was fortunate to purchase. John, I actually traded a P38 Commercial HP (plus some cash) I've had for many years to a good friend, who is a military collector/buyer. I've done business with him for many years and trust him explicitly. He didn't have an HP and really wanted it for his personal collection. He purchased the AE from an elderly gentleman he has done business with on different occassions in the past. He mentioned some time ago that he was certain he would be able to purchse the AE from him when he was ready. Apparently, he is a veteran who had many other German artifacts, of which my friend purchased several of his items over the years. That's about as much as I know about him. Thor, thanks for the information you provided me in the PM you sent me. I do believe the blueing is all original, but as I mentioned in my original posting the straw is worn to a silvery/golden color in the high spots of the small parts. The protected areas still retain their beautiful golden hue. Thanks again to everyone and this is one Luger that will never see the firing range. I'm sure she won't mind becoming a "safe queen"! Best Regards, Bob |
I forgot to mention that this AE also had an original leather dual mag pouch with it, but unfortunately for me my friend kept it to put with one of the artillary models he has. I was simply happy to get the AE and all things considered I am still smiling!
Thanks Again, Bob |
I also forgot to ask in my responses whether any of you might be able to give me an explanation of the letter "P" on the flat side (bottom) of the maganize. I did get a pretty good picture of it in the grouping I posted earlier. I'm just curious?
Thanks, Bob |
Other magazines with a "P" on the back bottom edge are known to be of Swiss manufacture... but the letter is much more script in nature than this one. This doesn't mean that it ISN'T Swiss in origin, just a possible origin from what I have seen.
Perhaps Albert Beliard, or one of the other early Luger collectors might have knowledge of this "P" marked magazine for you. |
Hello Bob,
Congratulations on a nice M1900 AE find. If you have a moment, could you post a jpeg of the "polished" area under the thumb safety lever and a jpeg of the underside of the barrel where the stampings are ? Just trying to convince myself that this pristine original finish really is and can still have the "comfort zone" traits I look for as well... Hello John, I think the scriptic "P" is typically seen on the plastic M1929 Bern luger magazines...I do not recall seeing them on a wooden Swiss magazine... Regards, Pete... <img border="0" alt="[typing]" title="" src="graemlins/yltype.gif" /> |
Pete,
Here's a shot from his list of pics: http://forums.lugerforum.com/lfupload/ae_6_small.jpg --Dwight |
Hello John & fellow collectors,
Sometimes the 'P' is seen on late Swiss magazines which meant it was destined for civilian use. I would like to make a comment that the magazine bottom is incorrect and probably a replacement. The right concave area is not the quality of an early Luger magazine. Without creating an inbalance towards the various compliments which have been made on this Luger pistol, I have a sense that the pistol could have received a very professional restoration. Before any conclusion is made, a closer inspection of the pistol would be necessary. With reference to the various posted images, I have noticed some inconsistencies with the straw which seems to be 'flat' in color, and it does not have the 'grain' and goldish color I like to see. For a pistol with a very high degree of conditon, I would also expect to see more straw on the safety lever and less fire-blue on the grip screws. Based on the small amount of muzzle wear, this proves that the pistol could have been used with a holster and, therefore, there should have been some wear of the fire blue on the grip screws. Attention should also be given to front sight which should have a fire blue finish; I could not determine if this was visible based on the images. Lastly, I do see a trace of the slightest amount of patina under the blue or on the high edges which should exist on a pistol which is over 100 years old. I have to lean with Pete that the pistol does not show the right 'comfort zones' This is only my opinion based on what I see and maybe another expert could someday examine this pistol in their hand. Albert |
Gentlemen:
Thanks to all of you for your comments. I posted as many pictures as possible in order to give those of you much more knowledgeable than myself the opportunity to give me your observations and feedback. This is one method of the learning process for us "novices". Pete if you look under my post, where there are hotlinks to numerous photos and look at jpeg no. 20, it shows the underside of the barrel and front of the receiver. Albert, thank you so much for your observations. Ted (Thor) also mentioned that I should look at the front sight, which should have the fire blue finish. In examining it closely, the finish on the front sight does seem to be more like the finish on the remainder of this AE. I can't tell for sure as it has been worn slightly as well. Hopefully someday in the near future I'll be able to bring it with me to one of the larger gun shows and have one of you more knowledgeable members examine it first hand. Again, I really appreciate the comments and this is a wonderful opportunity for me to gain additional information and knowledge beyond what I have learned from reading the limited reference materials at my disposal. Best Regards, Bob |
Bob, perhaps you could do a simple test on your gun to determine the originality of the finish. With a very strong flashlight look at the blue and see if there is any redness under the blue? The more the better. Also if you look at the "GERMANY" import mark do you see a halo around it? Maybe it's the pictures, but the blue looks a tad dark to me. All my Imperial guns have a soft blue gray look to them.
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Doug:
I did as you suggested and used a flashlight to examine the AE under it's light. There is a pronounced rust color or blotchy brownish color under the flat part of the rear toggle link, the toggles themselves, the rear sight area, and along the sides of the front toggle link. The remainder of the gun does seem to demonstrate a brownish hue, but not a distinct as the areas I just described. I'm not certain what to look for in terms of the "halo" affect around the GERMANY, but it is struck deep enough to seem to produce this affect when viewed from different angles. The serial number on the front of the frame and the one under the barrel are very crisp and deeply struck. Additionally, I did remove the right grip and looked again at the mag well, which is white or shiny. I am certainly the farthest thing from an expert to determine original finish and hopefully will be able to get to one of the larger gun shows in the near future. If I can, I'll bring the AE with me and have one of the more experienced collectors of Imperial Lugers give it a good ole fashioned firsthand examination. I'm happy with this AE and I guess that's plays a major part in enjoying it's beauty. When I examine the AE without the aide of a flashlight in normal or natural light the blueing all looks identical to me. If any of you have any other suggestions, or if I can provide additional pictures to show greater detail, please let me know. Thanks again to all of you for your observations and comments. Best Regards, Bob |
Bob, the red under color is a very good sign. As for the "Halo" effect here is a good picture to compare to.
http://www.georgealarm.com/doug/ae.JPG I am an from central Illinois, if you ever get in my neck of the woods I would love to look it over. |
Hi Bob,
Another thing to look at and consider is the interior condition of the gun's bore. If your pistol is pristine and original and showing very little wear, one should expect to see an almost factory-new bore condition as well. If the bore is worn with well-worn lands & groves, this might indicate the pistol's finish (at one time) showed commensurate wear... I did see the under-barrel makrings jpeg # 20, but the lighting of the photo has too much glare to tell if the "halo" effects are there or not. Also, make sure the stampings of the word "Germany" is even with each letter having a uniform depth and letter formation. If not, this might be another tell-tale-sign of metal polishing in this area... If you do a "Search" for the term "Simi-chrome" on the Foruum, you can get some good info. on using this metal polish product to pick up evidence of some rust/oxidation under the blue... Regards, Pete... <img border="0" alt="[typing]" title="" src="graemlins/yltype.gif" /> |
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