Japanese Mum Luger
 

This is floating around the net again.

Thoughts on definitive answer to this?

I've always understood that they are fakes.

You got a link??? :confused:

fakes

Been "debunked" several times. Total fake.
The Japanese didn't even put "mums" on their own made pistols!

Here goes?

What you have always understood still holds true.
Ron

The Japanese did take captured Dutch Lugers, but these were used in semi-official capacities and never marked by Japanese armories.

Good shot! :)

I sort of vaguely remember, in an old-mans memory, that it was sacrilegious to allow weapons with the Chrysanthemum to fall into US hands...

Here's one explanation -

https://www.gunboards.com/sites/banz...MissingMum.htm

Hey, here's a stamping die from an old guy in Prior Lake! :D

https://www.gunboards.com/sites/banz...ry/Die1600.jpg

Hmmm, I have a gun with Elven runes on it, it must have been made in Valinor...

Not a photo of my Baby Nambu but photo showing "mum" on cocking piece.

Sorry Hugh, but that is not a "mum"; it is simply machining for a better grip to remove. All the T 38 and T 99 rifles and carbines have a similar pattern on their safety, for "grip" when turning.

The "Mum" is a very specific flower with a certain number of petals, which is only used for the Emperor of Japan- I believe the Emperor's mum has 18 petals, and the "regular" mum only 16. But I could be off on the petal count, the significance is that they are different and the pattern on the Baby safety is not a mum with petals.
:cheers:

Well, the mouth breathers over on this "collector's" site are still arguing convoluted scenarios where this Luger might be possible. There is no reasoning with them.
I am convinced that if I engraved an R2D2 on a Luger, I could get an internet expert to argue a time travel scenario.

Pictures! :D

On Facebook it is being argued, unsure of any other site today. However, I have looked at a couple - I think never in person.
From what I understand;
**the writing doesn't make much sense
***Chrysanthemum wouldn't be on a pistol - not on T14 nor a T94
****One argument is that it is in Mike Jones book (so early that it likely isn't a fake is the thought process)
*****So few of these - shouldn't there be scores that come up?

There is one in Harry Jone's book Luger Variations pg 209, pub 1959. ;)

Datig also mentions the possibility of Japanese 'Mum' Lugers (but no pictures) in the 1958 revised printing of The Luger Pistol.

As with the Totenkopf Luger(s), I seriously doubt that anyone in 1959 (or earlier) would have bothered faking a less than $50 Luger... :rolleyes:

IMO there must have been at least one with the markings. Maybe not an 'official' stamping, but realistic enough to convince the experts of that period. :thumbup:

"As with the Totenkopf Luger(s), I seriously doubt that anyone in 1959 (or earlier) would have bothered faking a less than $50 Luger...

IMO there must have been at least one with the markings. Maybe not an 'official' stamping, but realistic enough to convince the experts of that period. "

Well, could have been an early Shattuck boost, nothing like taking a $50 pistol and making a $200 pistol out of it!

JMHO.

Did Shattuck ever list or show a 'Mum' Luger to any of his many friends here??? He could have had one of the 'real' Mum Lugers...Or been sold one... :)

BTW: Jone's pictures show the Japanese 'Mum" Luger as being in the Russ Storer Collection, and shows 'Gesichert' as the safety marking (not 'Rust').

Anyone who says never on lugers has 1. not been around long or 2 Has not looked or studied lugers. Bill

I did not see a Japanese marked Luger on Shattucks personal collection document

It was not back from the shop yet...