Do you see what I see?
 

This gun appeared on legacies website last week they put it on hold for me as I was anxious to get a hold of it it looks good at first appearance and still looks good for the most part to My eyes.

However, as I was studying it on the computer the other night I noticed something missing. There is no serial number stamped into the second link of the toggle I am not accusing of any wrongdoing by the seller as I have dealt with them a few times and I've been happy just being a 1912 where they first converted to military style serial numbers could this just be an oversight by DWM or do you think the link has been replaced?

I will do a hands-on inspection with it this week as legacy is only about five minutes from where I work attached is the link to the weapon. I would appreciate anybody's input before our she'll out the money.

http://www.legacy-collectibles.com/n...-gun-unit.html

I don't see a number either but the online photos are not that great. If the link is indeed un-numbered then it detracts from the value of the gun, regardless of explanations.
KFS

I beg to differ. The receiver is NOT Erfurt proofed and the gun looks all original to me. The serial number of the middle toggle link should be found in the recess underneath.
Norm

Don,
I don't understand your observation that the receiver is Erfurt proofed. The Reichsadler is the DWM type and the inspection stamps are correct for 1912 DWM. Could you have been looking at photos of another Luger on the web site?
KFS

To me the pictures are not clear at all, although the price doesn't involve an awful lot of money this is probably one of those cases when a good hands-on evaluation would be advisable.

A 1912 dated DWM should have a serial numbered forward toggle. The transition from hidden to exposed numbering was in 1911 at the same time small parts serial numbering transitioned to the military fashion.

I am in agreement that the two digit serial number should be on the outside of the second toggle link (behind the DWM Logo)
According to Jan Stills Imperial lugers about the 1912 DWM Pages 22-23 "Earliest production had the commercial style of serial number placement, Mid-production had SOME small parts with the exposed (military) style serial placement, and last production had full military style serial placement."

This particular gun being SN 7954 I wouldn't really say its Mid production. But with the hands on if I find the "54" hidden on the underside of the toggle link I think it may still have a chance.

Just as reference

Top pic- Military type SN on toggle from a 1912 (Upper Toggle in pic)
Commercial style placement from a unit marked 1910 (Lower toggle in pic)
2nd pic - undersides of toggles with the commercial SN digits hidden on the 1910
3 and 4th pucs close ups of the recessed areas showing the last two of the serial number on the 1910

You are both correct, brain bubble is my only excuse.

You are correct Norm, I was asleep, distracted or other wise just wrong.:o

So any thoughts on whether this could be a mistake at the factory or is this just a messed with piece? I also notice one comment that has been deleted from this thread. Strange I would think all
Opinions would be welcome. I certainly am not thin skinned about learning I am just a student and appreciate all comments!!

Wayne,
My comment was in error, I was looking at a DWM eagle and registered Erfurt, nothing nefarious, I was just wrong.

Too early or too late and my brain was just not connected to my fingers - hence "brain bubble".

IMO, there are "no" factory errors, and if they are you can not use them to explain a "wrong" pistol.

This one likely lies in the transition from hidden or commercial type numbers to the military style.

Read all the posts, and look for the numbers on the side of the breech block and on the bottom of the middle toggle when you get a chance to look at the piece or ask questions.

Don I appreciate it I didn't mean a factory error I guess I should've chosen my words more wisely!
I guess I am hoping that it can be explained by finding the correct serial numbers on the underside of the toggle. Then I may feel comfortable in the fact that it may be due to the transition from commercial to military placement.

Tomorrow will tell

Another case where removing part of or all a post just confuses the whole thread...

I resemble that remark:p.

I think removing a post that is obviously WRONG is the right thing to do; it would have caused more confusion in future to leave it.

Now if the two guys who caught my error would remove reference to it, it would all make sense again.

Guys I appreciate the honesty in this post. Don anyone can make a mistake
Doesn't reflect negatively on you in my eyes. I'm the one who jumped on a gun missing an obvious
Serial number. Luckily I am still not out any cash. I am hoping that the correct numbers are tucked away under the toggle then I may proceed with the purchase. If they aren't I may just pass on it altogether

I recommend that if you make a mistake when writing a post, that instead of deletion you consider editing the your post, leaving the original text and then including a retraction or correction as appropriate (perhaps in a different font or color to highlight the edit). This will leave future readers much less confused... not to mention old timers like me!

John, you made a good point. That approach makes a lot of sense to me. :order:

But, heck, a Luger newbie like me found this thread topic above my head and confusing with or without edits or deletions. LOL

Good idea.:thumbup:

Okay so I just went and did a hands on. The pistol looks right as rain except for the middle toggle link.
It is stamped with a small"1" in the recess under the toggle. Front toggle link, Extractor, Rear toggle link all stamped with the correct number, All parts minus mag (And middle toggle) stamped 54

This includes the grips.

What a dilemma