C&R Holder Needed
 

Gentlemen,
I sold one of my Automag pistols and am looking for a C&R holder who can send it to another C&R holder in California. My usual gun dealer receives from California but sends nothing into California. I live in Northern Virginia and can deliver the pistol to the C&R if local.

Thank you

Sorry Conny, but you can't do that.
 

I haven't checked lately, but as far as I remember, the AUTOMAG is not a C&R qualified pistol It has to appear on the ATF list of Curios and Relics. If it does not appear there, then a C&R license holder cannot ship it or receive it.

You will need a person with a Federal Firearms License to do what you want to do, and so will the purchaser at his end.

John, Actually, it is listed on the ATF Publication 5300.11, Revised December 2007. The C&R list has the pistol under Section II with the name "Auto-Mag".

http://www.atf.gov/publications/down...-p-5300-11.pdf

However, if there is a regular FFL holder that can ship this for me, let me know your price and when you can ship.

Automag isn't a C&R gun, was made sort of 1970+.

As another minor point, a C&R license is a collector's license, and cannot be used with the intent of transfering the gun to somebody other than the licensee. A C&R who does not plan to fund an increase in the size of the gun collection of a local criminal defense attorney must not act as a gun dealer. A 03 C&R cannot "receive" any GCA/NFA controlled gun for transfer to sombody else (except another licensee), only 01 FFLs can do this. BATF is looking for this!

H

Conny

All you have to do is have the person who bought the pistol in CA find a FFL01 to take the transfer from a non FFL. You can ship the gun yourself via FedEx or UPS. It has to go to a FF01 in CA to be transferred.

jerry

I am sure state laws vary but I have the understanding..... a license is needed to recieve a gun..not ship one.

Jerry Burney

Conny,
C & R hand guns have to be shipped to an 01 FFL into the state of Calif. and do a dros to the buyer. C&R to C&R hand guns transfers by mail are not allowed. Must use a 01 FFL to send to Calif. Only C&R TO C&R long rifle are allowed in Calif. by mail.
Jeffrey

Azlaw, I'm going going to get into a pi$$ing match. It is listed if you bothered to check the AFT list link I posted. AGE is NOT the ONLY criteria to be C&R eligible.

Zinfull, I'll see if he can find a dealer who will accept from an individual. Being California though, that's probably not allowed. Thanks for the advice.

Thank you rhinemann. I'm looking for a FFL holder now.

That is correct; there are many non-50 yr old guns classified as C&R, such as the East German Makarov's, made in the 60's and 70's.

Ed

I stand corrected. Didn't see your link until after I posted (post times are minutes apart), you are correct that some Automags are designated C&R. I knew that CZ-83s had somehow been designated as C&R in 9x18, in spite of not being 50 years old.

H

OK gentlemen, after calling 16 gun dealers in Northern Virginia (I never knew there were so many), I finally landed on 1 that will ship to California.

Is it too much paperwork? Red Tape? Restriction?....What keeps dealers from shipping to California. I rarely see any gun dealers on GunBroker that will ship there also. What is the "hassle?"

Azlaw, I wasn't trying to be rude but do apologize if I worded my sentence too strong.

"Auto-Mag pistols, calibers .44 AMP and .357 AMP, mfg. and/or assembled by Auto-Mag Corporation, TDE, OMC"

is C&R by ATF definition. See "SECTION II: Firearms Classified As Curios Or Relics Under 18 U.S.C. Chapter 44" (page 18 of PDF):

http://www.atf.gov/publications/down...-p-5300-11.pdf

The state of CA pass a law

About CFLC

As of July 1, 2008, California Penal Code Section 12072(f)(1) prohibits all Federal Firearms Licensees (FFLs), other than Type 03 or 06 FFLs, from shipping firearms to an FFL in California unless, prior to delivery, the FFL intending to deliver, sell or transfer the firearms obtains a verification approval number from the California Department of Justice (CADOJ) Bureau of Firearms. This includes transfers that occur at gun shows.

This made many FFL01s say forget CA. because they do not want to register in the program. It is easy and does not cost but a few minutes. It is just another verification that CA put to verify the FFL dealer has a CA business license. It does not apply to individual personnel.

There is not a law requiring a FFL to FFL shipment. Most dealers require this as house policy because they are scared of the ATF.

Also because it is a C&R this applies

Roster of Handguns Certified for Sale

Effective January 1, 2001, no handgun may be manufactured within California, imported into California for sale, lent, given, kept for sale, or offered/exposed for sale unless that handgun model has passed firing, safety, and drop tests and is certified for sale in California by the Department of Justice. Private party transfers, curio/relic handguns, certain single-action revolvers, and pawn/consignment returns are exempt from this requirement.



jerry

Conny,
Where in California are you trying to ship the gun?

Tom

The buyer lives in Fremont, Ca. I sent him an email mentioning I found an FFL holder and will ship to his nearest FFL holder.
I know he's busy today and will hear from him tomorrow.

Not a bit of offense taken, it was I who was incorrect. A pleasure to be on a gentlemans' forum though!

H

Conny,
Have the buyer send, fax, or email you a copy of the FFL 01 he is going to use. As Zinfull has stated, you can send the gun to the address on the FFL yourself. Enclose a copy of the FFL in with the gun when you ship. His FFL will do the California state paperwork when it arrives and there will be a 10 day waiting period.

Tom

Thanks Tom. The FFL holder I found here will ship to California. The buyer will pick the pistol up from his nearest FFL holder or, if my FFL holder can ship to the buyers C&R address, that would be fine also.

I don't think I'll be selling firearms to people in California after this. Never had this problem with any other State.

I think it would be a shame for you (or anyone else) to stop shipping to California because the only ones to be penalized are fellow collectors of which there are many on this Forum from Ca. The problem is the misinformation and the anti California sentiment out there. Just like any other state, it is fully legal for you to ship your gun to a California FFL 01.

ditto.....