Change in price
 

What killed the price in our case was the fact , that number of orders was not as expected...

We were hoping to get 100 to 200 orders the first year and that was goign to help expend and streamline the process,

Not having more capital and not sure of future orders, meany steps of manufacturing stayed hand involved for the luck of the better term, and been labor intensive, we are unable to keep the low price.

First 50 were no profit , and in hopes to increase numbers, it stayed low, second year looks about the same as the first,

So we had 2 different directions, stop production or continue with some profit to make operations somewhat profitable.

For now we selected option 2, as we are not giving up hope,
and realize that with only about 6 month of publicity and advertisement, volume may change a bit,

if that happens, we promise to bring prices down, but for now, they will only be goign up from year to year.

Our gall is to make as meany Lugers as we can, but we got to eat , while doing that.

But with all that sad, we do not want to go a car manufacturing approach, of get the product out there and fix problems later, not with guns and not under our watch.

Even with close inspections we still find small problems making it's way in to a enduser,

we only test with 200-300 rounds after all.

And we thank everyone for there feedback, that helps us improve and make the product better.


More guns coming up....

.45 Luger mags
 

Eugene, As I recall John Martz used Sig 220 mags that he had GT modify for the luger. TH

different mags
 

How meany of you will by the gun if the mags are one part bent sheet metal and will not look correct for the 1907 trials.

Even if it make the gun $500-600 cheaper ?

And mags will probably will have to be 6 shot at that point

Eugene,
I'd buy "spare" mags at the lower price.

We all understand the need to eat, but don't blame your potential customers for not buying 100 more lugers!

I understand your need for "volume"; but truthfully with your reputation for delay, non-communication, and not meeting shipment commitments- you must understand by folks are not lined up to buy a .45 luger at any price- be it $5k or $7k.

Sorry to be so blunt- I'm very happy with my .45 luger and your work is top notch!

Not blaming
 

It was not so much blaming...

But more of stating of the facts ...

I am hoping that , in conversation amongst friends for the most parts ;0) .

I can be frank, without pointing fingers and assigning blame ;0)
Or worrying to be misunderstood.

I simply wish... for more orders ;0)

And hope that putting all my funds and abilities out there to keep Luger history alive... be meat with more enthusiasm then it was...

I simply overestimated, number of luger collectors that were willing or have an ability to spend the money on something they can not find anywhere else ;0) for 5K or 7K for that matter


No hard fillings of any kind...

This forum supported me and the product, and I am grateful for that.

And I hope that need to do the work ( as a preference), over the need to keep up perfect communication is somewhat understood, if not appreciated...

We make ourselves and product better every day .. or at least try ;0)

Eugene, I figured once you got the back log caught up, I would be in the market, when I could drive down, buy it and drive home with it. 7k just killed that idea. The people interested in them are for the most part shooters, not big wallet collectors, and believe you just doomed the project. As stated, 7 thousand buys a lot of original luger. I think all the slow sales are due to lead times of over a year. Now I will wait until the ones out there start showing up in the used gun market, or get the chance to shoot one, and just get it out of my system. As time goes by, the thrill of having one diminishes. I do give you much credit for taking on such a task, and succeeding so well in making a reliable, and previously affordable 45 luger. John

price point
 

I do understand that for some people 5 vs 7 make a difference.

But i also know hat for past 6 month, we have been selling them for 6K and lots of people order boxes and 3ed mag making the purchase very close to 7K.

But it is not about money at this point, but about keeping a project alive in a current state.

At 7K I can get some profit, so i can draw a salary after of 2 years of no profit.,
at 6K I am paying for shop costs and not much else.

I waited 2 years to get profit, from it, it's not fun anymore.
It has to make money, or we are going to kill the project.

It is still 1/2 the price of only one other option on the market.

I got my joy out of making the only working 45 Luger on the market ... time to play with other toys

Eugene,

If for the past 6 months you have been selling them for 6,000, how about taking care of the original members here who helped you get started with this project. ! Still waiting on my BABY 45 !! You post here but never give answers when members ask, so when can I expect my LUGER ?

Rick

"It is still 1/2 the price of only one other option on the market."

And what is the other option ?

Could be Krause or Nedbal-Werle

I didn't know Krause was still doing conversions, and Werle would be a bear to import.
And neither is a 1907 clone.

Unfortunately, or fortunately:crying:- depending on your opinion- no one really "needs" a 1907 luger clone- plenty of other .45 autos, and one off or Martz .45 lugers are available on the secondary market.

Personally, I'm a little surprised Eugene was able to sell 100 1907 clones. That is 1/2 a million $ worth of lugers!:eek::thumbup:

I doubt that any one mag fired even close to 9000 rounds through it. That would mean there was only one mag used for s/n 4. In the videos I have seen the shooter usually has 3 mags. Even if the mag lasted for "only" 3000 rounds, that is undoubtedly more than nearly any shooter will put through their Luger. I have probably shot fewer than 4000 rounds through my Thompson, and I have around 20 mags, so the round count per mag is actually pretty low.
If the magazines are potentially project killers, it might be time to outsource them to Mecgar, or another manufacturer...Bill

And, for the record, ignoring someone's emails is just plain rude...Bill

Krause's is a 1907 clone. Eugene used the blueprints and measurements he purchased from Krause to create his guns. I don't think Krause is still making his guns but they do come up for resale from time to time and usually for a five-figure price.

Eugene,

still waiting to hear from you !

You made a baby 45 for yourself so sell it to me and make another for yourself.

Found my posting here when I had ordered one so shooul have been in the second batch to go out.

magazine round count
 

I did not think about the multiple magazines per gun, silly me,

So the math is 9000 true the gun, 2 mags were with it originally, and probably have 3500-4000 each true them,
and one mag was replaced about 1/2 way , so another 1500-2500 on it.

I's not just about how meany rounds, gone thru the mags,

I have several competition shooters that will use the guns in a race,
I am trying to make better product,

Mags were a pain the first time around, and look like a pain the next time around, so we try to change process a little to make it easier.

outsourcing the mags
 

We tried outsourcing to
MacGar first.

Fortunately we way back with

gregcotellc.com

He has a direct relationship with Mac-Gar factory.

There answer was they need a 1000 units order at 25-30 a mag to tool up for it,

so I needed to shell out 25000 green once without knowing if they going to work or not and god knows how long of a turn around it will be , because they are booked about a year ahead.

Sop that idea took a dive.

Then I approached Triple-K, there product is of a lesser qualety, but i figure a close watch can fix little problems there mags have,

But there answer was very similar and made even less scene at that point.

So we are back to making our own mags.

Need is a strong word,

So i guess I do not need 10 lugers in my collection and 8 Webleys and 4 Cone hummer broomahndles.

I do not need them.

Just as much as I do not need #1 and #2 Luger 1907 45s we made.

No one NEEDS it...

But here we are in a 2nd year of production with 7 guns unspoken for.

I am sure 4 or 5 clients that ordered 2 guns each, desperately need one for each hand ;0)

And a 10mm carbine that is on order is a desperately needed for hunting, because a man needs to put food on the table after all ;0)

First Baby
 

First Baby is staying in house...
I NEED that ...

But we will make a second one, as soon as the mag ordeal is sorted out.

Just case in point, my heat treater decided to skip a stop and did not pickup a test run of mags to heat treat, so now i am day behind from were i wanted to be...

That's what happens when you depend on other people ...

Another case of 2 guns ordered... Baby and Standard.
Both guns have been pre-fitted and one needs to be cut and grips made .

Emails
 

Not ignoring...

Just 2 days behind on answering...

Imagine trying top accomplish something during the day,
been pulled apart by people walking in and my staff.

And answering 10-15 phone calls a day and about 50-60 emails...

I wish I had an extra office for a secretary...

magazines!
 

Hi Eugene, A long time ago, I was trying to line up fabrication shops to make a magazine shell similar to the fxo type of mag tube! I noticed some mags had a lot of washboard chatter which sometimes occurs when metal is drawn thru a die with out sufficient lube??? It got me to thinking?
At the time, I did contact some aerospace companies that had the capabilities to make what I wanted, and that was a, "cold drawn, formed tube" shape, that was a near net part, less the machining and milling process for fit and function.
Cut off to length, machine top profile, follower slot and bottom radius reliefs if required, etc.?
The cost was reasonable, but the minimum was approx. 25 hundred feet, probably in 6' lengths, 4130 material, maybe 4140?.. Anyway, what stopped me, is I wanted a swaged feed lip area to make them more robust and thicker at the top, and this technology was not found at my level of search.. So, I shelved the project, but never forgot about the tubing... Maybe this will help you plan, maybe not.. but it was the path I traveled for awhile... best to all, til...lat'r....GT...:cheers:

Eugene,
My point on "need" was that in the $5k range the market is quite small; so your sales volume expectation may be optimistic.

I did not "need" #20 either, but I wanted it and like it a lot!

It is great that some folks ordered two, congrats.

Delegation - I fully realize it is hard to do.

But, you've needed to hire a journeyman for years - take care of the bluing, the parts requests - phone calls, email and then you supervise and not try to do everything.

'Perfection' has given you a poor reputation Eugene. Do a google search on yourself. Is that the way to get guns sold? You are 8 months behind on 1907 sales - promised and paid by many folks, so saying you are a couple days behind - well, where are the other 7 months?

You've shipped the vast majority of loose mags? if you are saying you have 20 mags sitting around because you want a new batch made - I would bet a phone call to half the people would say, I'll take my completed 1907 and the 3 mags promised.

I fully realize that you hate dealing with on-going problems, but some of these problems you make yourself and then the fun is gone and its a chore. But, delegation, in our line of work, its needed and you simply have to hire someone. In the long run, you'll make a lot more money, and a lot less headaches.

Eugene, if you get in a bind you could always auction serial number 1. Make yourself another with serial number LX01. By the way, how do you pronounce your last name?

mag issue!
 

Hi Eugene! I'd take mine with the less quality mags! I will purchase (a couple of!) the better quality mags when they become available?... Let me know... best to you, til...lat'r...….GT......:cheers:

Eugene,

having trouble getting mags shouldn't keep you from finishing up the lugers you have deposits on.

Your failure to sell me the baby you made for yourself tells me my pistol is on the back burner ----- how hard would it have been to say heh Rick, send me the balance and I will ship you mine and knock out another to keep for myself. Maybe you need to put your customers NEEDS ahead of yours for a change.

We all appreciate the trouble you took on to get this project off the ground. You also need to remember 5 - 7 thousand is a lot of money to a working stiff or a retired gent on fixed income. Then again we are probably not the customers you were hoping for.

I collect a lot of things besides guns. Pocket watches , watch tools, antique outboards, antique machine tools, some of which are real pricey. I happen to own a Goyen OT lathe , ck out Shuter Goyen. You talk about expensive -----

Most recently I have been picking up a few motorcycles. Bought a Big Dog Chopper for 5,000 a 30,000 bike. I ride it a couple times a week, GREAT FUN for the money. When and If I get my Baby I will probably shoot it a few times and then put it up with my other Lugers, not much FUN in that, especially for the MONEY !!!!!Certainly pride in ownership but only a few will ever appreciate what it is.

If you charge $10,000 per standard 1907, then you won't need to sell as many to show a profit! :thumbup: ;) :)

Gosh Eugene.
As long as you're wishing, I'll wish along with you. "I wish the .45 call 1907 Luger pistol I ordered from you in August 2017 was completed and in my safe."
Wonder if that wish will come true before the one year anniversary of my order?
Lyn

Eugene:
How many 45 Lugers have you completed to date?

Eugene:
How many 45 Lugers have you completed to date?
---------------------------------------------------------------------
better to ask : how many delivered to customers to date?

He's not going to answer either one...

I wonder if he got some more magazines made.

Magazines
 

We tested a new material for mags,
And we trying to simplify the process a bit,
To take out several manual operations.
As soon as fixtures are done will be cutting more mags.
Mean while we prepared 6 more guns for shipping.
We got another 10 to go from 2017 lot of guns.

mag material?
 

4130 or 4140? ….. just guessing! ….GT....:cheers:

Those are carbon steel. Aren't Eugene's magazines stainless??? :confused:

Wrong.
17-7
Other materials proven to be unstable during heat treatment

looks like a good choice!
 

It appears that it will do everything you require... material is a bit pricy, and looks like the secondary opp's are expensive and a bit complicated as well... but, when done, it will be a magazine they will dig up a thousand years from now, and it will look as new?...:)…. best to all, til....lat'r.....GT.....:cheers:

Hi Rich!
 

Yes, but they would be adequate in my mind for production ease and cost effectiveness, and heat treat?? Yet, by far, probably not the best choice... best to you, til...lat'r....GT...:cheers:

Yes, they do not need oil deep to harden,
17-7 is very stable and air cooled on hardening.

L.M.

I have a deep appreciation for actual expertise, thanks for sharing some of yours.

Not many would take on such a project as the 45 Luger, just so much work of all kinds required, my congratulations on your efforts as if you really needed it.....:)