Don,

Couldn't agree more, re what quality is. It's why I admire modern military small arms... stamped metal, plastic, and all Again, the Germans come out near the top.

Lugers and old classics are in their own category.

And Jerry, I agree about not letting friends buy plastic guns. In theory. But I confess. I was a hold-out for decades, until a friend coerced me into shooting his Glock 27, I loved it, bought one, then two extra barrels, then a Glock 20 in 10mm, and extra long slide, and two more barrels...

It's called slippery slope syndrome.

But quality is what Don described; a bunch of considerations, all valid.

I have a fondness for items made from the turn of the Century up until about 1945, seems like after that things changed. The only plastic gun I own is my Colt AR15. I carried a weapon very similar to it in the Central Highlands for a couple of years..Well I take that back I have a half dozen Remington Model 66 Nylon .22 rifles. Those are cool..I guess I'm a hypocrite really!

Jerry,
Yep, we all find a little of that in ourselves from time to time; I have several, well, perhaps too many plastic pistols. But when I go "out" they fit my pocket or purse better than a luger! :)

Now, about that Swiss extractor- will it fit a DWM breech block?

Attachments to Guns
 

Jerry, we can't help getting attached to personal firearms that are not for paper punching. It was that way with a Luger I had, long ago and far away. For several years, I had no other choice, and I worried about reliability. But both of us are happily and boringly stateside for good. Later, an FN Hi Power made me feel better, as I do with Glocks today.

I have a Nylon 66, and like and respect the design. It just works and works, far more accurately than many expect. I have an accuracy tweak, a small unobtrusive set screw threaded into the top front of the forearm, adjusted to bear lightly on the barrel. You can eliminate all barrel play, and the nylon is very stable. Remington should have kept refining their concept, in my opinion.

Drum update
 

how do I get GT to repair the snail drum?:_otopic:

Contact GT @ gctomeks@msn.com

Reproduction Snail Drum
 

thank you!!!!!!!!!!!! :thumbsup:

Revised drum update!
 

Hi to all! Just for every ones information, I just sent the last 12 GT revised drums to Numrich for retail sale, and it will be some time before the next bunch is completed! The reason is, I have to order the steel, and make the main spring, before I can even start to do the other major operations in the revision process.... Anyway, if you want a GT one, here's your chance! Best to all, til....lat'r.....GT:cheers:

G.T. I am Robert and I would like to have one of the revised drums.

Two days the were available from Numrich and today I looked to buy one they were not for sale.

Robert

drum source!
 

Hi Robert! I'd be happy to discuss the NUMRICH 32 round drum with you, and enlighten you as to what makes it operate correctly..
Although I can revise customers drums that have already been purchased, the retail outlet for them is NUMRICH GUN PARTS CORP. and if you order a drum set, drum & loader, make sure you, order/specify, the GT Edition.... It will fit, function and last! We can work out any kinks you have from that point forward! My email is: gctomeks@msn.com I am not a retail outlet, and we are at an understanding with NUMRICH that I'll not compete with them while the drum revision program goes forward... Once revised, they are a pretty neat and solid, "bit o'kit" Best to you, and thanks for your inquiry.....til...lat'r...GT....:cheers:

Just edited my old post.
I got my BYF (41) from SOG in the mid 1990's and am finally playing with it.
It is was put away wet and left there - it is a Russian capture one.
Those guns are touchy!
So I guess I will need to wait until they have them available?
Robert

email sent
 

Hi Robert, The reason they aren't readily available is that they require a TON of work to revise them to the design level initially intended, but due to some oversight, came up a little short in some important areas?... Adding to the problem, is, it would seem, I'm the only one silly enough to take on a revision program of the magnitude required to make them fit, work, and live!:eek:... Many have followed this quest from the start, and I'm sure have effected revisions of there own, as we have not left a stone unturned in this quest....
My goal is to reach 50 units per month, and see how it goes from there?...
Numrich has been excellent to work with, and they have a great attitude as to the what we need to do to reach a common goal, and that is to make an affordable, and reliable drum magazine for the Luger enthusiast out there... I'm not going to kid you though it's a LOT of work, mixed in with some blood to make them perform as intended.... :eek:... but, they are a great item when the goal is finally met...:).... Best to all, til....lat'r....GT:cheers:

I checked the site and they are available today, and, I got one (5/24/2017). YABBA DOO!!!!!!!!!!!
(And I got the leather case too.)
Thanks for the heads up.
Robert

Numrich drum revision progress!
 

Hi to all, I'm pretty sure you have all tired of the Numrich drum project some time ago?.... But, tired or not, here's the latest info on what's happening and what's happened?.... :eek:... Actually, it's all good! :) I just sent the last 12 revised drums, completing a total mailing of 50 GT Edition drums so far? There were three prototype drums, and as far as I know, Ed Tinker got number 2, and the rest went out to someone, somewhere?.... I just hope they worked!
Anyway, I have just received the second lot of 50 units to revise, and they will be cycled thru with the very best efforts and knowledge I have at hand... And, as always, a couple of customer drums as well....
Also, in line with the revision project, I had to order a substantial amount of spring steel, as the price breaks come with quantity... and we have a serious quantity to address?... How many / much you might ask, ... more that the average person can lift.... actually, dead lift?.... :)... This all seems proper in the GT scheme of things and of life.... When I made the first two springs, I thought that was one too many.... Now look, obviously I need to fire my cost/ project analysis guy... :).... Best to all, til....lat'r.....GT....:cheers:

There aint many that would even begin to take a project like this on; even one drum, much less many more than one.

I guess some things are not about money........passion is one of those things; you gotta have it inside.

You're the man G.T., you have it; a gift that most cannot fathom.

a gift that most cannot fathom. Well, I know I can't! passion is one of those things; you gotta have it inside. GT has it in spades! Good on ya Brother..Congratulations...I guess. Now look, obviously I need to fire my cost/ project analysis guy...Why bother..you got him working practically for free!

G.T. my idol, besides the handle are there any major differences between the old and new models? You Are Our Real Life Mechanical Hero! How about a better third model? Eric, Way Cooool!

drum differences
 

Hi to all, as to Erics question, all I can say is there are progressive changes to the number of stiffener rings pressed into the flats to add to the overall rigidity and strength of the assembly?... The early telescopic arm was probably not strong or reliable enough to do the job on a consistent basis... But, there are collectors here that can tell way more than I as to the reason for the changes made...
All in all, I'm most happy with the realization that every drum I revise, will end up with a Luger enthusiast, and will work reliably in an effort to spread the enjoyment that one can have with these wonderful items, at an affordable price.... In other words, we all can play! Even more importantly, as mentioned before, this forum is a major part of my Luger family.... and sacrifice for family is nothing new or strange to the crowd that lives here?.... I have many friends here, and many more that I've yet to meet.... You don't have to be far reaching or far sighted to be part of this group, the next shared quest and solid handshake is worth more than most realize.... And so it is the way it goes for me... More to come! Best to all, til...lat'r.....GT...:cheers:

Last call for this current go-around!
 

Hi to all! I have received my newest installment of qty. 50 NUMRICH drums for the revisions and improvements that will bring them up to date for resale... The reason for this note, is that anyone who has an original non-revised NUMRICH drum, and would like all the improvements offered in the revision process, now is the time to send me your drum?... The cost of the revision is $115.00 and also includes improvement to the loader as well. I run them right in with the NUMRICH drums, and when they are all ready to go, I test fit, assemble, and test cycle, each drum in order to make sure they are as good as I can make them... :thumbup:... anyway, this is the time should you feel the need! Best to all, til...lat'r...GT...:cheers:.. gctomeks@msn.com

G.T. SPECIALTIES
316 WEST STRAFORD DRIVE
CHANDLER, AZ 85225 - 7117

Grins and smiles!
 

Hi to all, This is the latest update for those who follow this insane quest! I just received notice that my order for NUMRICH Luger drum replacement mainspring, 1075 spring steel, is on the dock, ready for shipment! :eek:... Well, nobody told me it just doesn't show up magically on my doorstep kind a like Christmas gift?.... :eek: Nope, you need a freight company... So, that (Very costly) arraignment was made, and as far as I know, the gears are turning and the steel is in route to my workshop now.... Hopefully they are wearing out tires to get here... I earlier had mentioned a large amount of spring steel was necessary for the task completion from beginning to end... and, it weighs in at exactly 950 pounds! ...:eek:... Again, "Holy Crap!" ... I can barely life a 20 pack of bud light? (BTW, Bud light has a very critical place in this quest!) Soooo, it's going to be mainsprings, and mainsprings, and mainsprings, for awhile.... :thumbup:... They didn't build Rome in a day.... And, actually, I don't think the Romans had much to do with mainsprings anyway! Best to all, til...lat'r....GT...:cheers:

it weighs in at exactly 950 pounds! Gerald, Did you get any air conditioning in your garage or are you working at the kitchen table? Crazy man...Sposed to be 115 in Yuma tomorrow. 90 degrees is as chilly as it gets at night! 90 degrees at 4AM! Now that's what I call tropical!

temp!
 

Hi Jer, yes, crazy is a prerequisite for working in the Phoenix area in the summer! Lucky for me, I have plenty of bedroom bench work to do with the drums, as well as the garage stuff.... And, to look at things in an optimistic light... I'm already at 100 degrees or better, ahead, every time I need to heat something up?... :thumbup:... I did manage to get the steel pre cut into the proper lengths.... Hugh time saving step... right now, I feel like a miniature Taiwan! ...:eek:... I wonder what the hourly rate is over there? BTW, I think I should form my own union, I could take all my complaints right to the very top! I'd show him a thing or two.... Anyway, work goes on.... best to all, til...lat'r....GT
:cheers: ... BTW, GTS/T barrels are being turned as we speak! :)

Hi GT,
Numrich has a new batch of them drums out for delivery, are those reworked by you as well?
They just became available the other day.

Or do I get something that I may not like because of all the technical issues?

Just curious.

Numrich drums
 

Hi John, The drums listed for sale are, as far as I know, revised by me?... They won't even fit if not reworked? So, the GT Edition is the only show in town so to speak?... The drums are very problematic, as in the drums have to be as good as they can be, and the Lugers have to be top notch as well... 100% function is spotty, but it can be achieved... some will be better than others, but regardless, every thing needed will be there? Fit, strength of parts, and correct springs... The only variable is internal polish? I have polished them and bench tested them, but it isn't really a good test until you run them in your Luger...
But, here's the good part... if you have trouble, I'm here and will stand behind all the drums with the GT proof mark on the side... :eek:... I will do my best to make all as good as we can expect... I will recommend loading them to 25 rounds to start with, and oiling or applying lube to the ammo will help as well.. But, keep in mind, that commercial ammo doesn't have sealed primers and prolonged exposure to lube will kill the primers or cause faulty loads...
Some are going to work great, some not... let me know how you turn out and we will go from there... best to you John, til...lat'r....GT... BTW, contact Don Voigt on the forum if you want another view point on the drum function, he knows as much as me, or more on the tuning of these items... best to you, til...lat'r...GT...:cheers:

I just got mine back and the only issue was that the loader would not lock onto the drum, so it just slid off under pressure. Just a bit of filing and that was fixed. Like G. T. says, they are problematic and I wouldn't want to bet my life on one, but they are way cool at the range.
Thanks for your help, G. T!
dju

GT is being kind, I have helped with some of the early work and testing and have 4 of these drums myself. I needed them to fill up my P Kasten that holds 5 mags and the loader! Picture below shows an original Bing type 2 on the left and four of the Numrich/GT repros.

Some do work better than others, and it is a little tough to understand- but any given drum may work better in one luger than another!

The initial "problems" with Numrich's drums, though they are a close copy, was final quality control and a several faults when copying the original.
They were rougher inside, not always in alignment, the mainspring weak, the follower too long and flimsy, the mag tube too large to fit many pistols, and the mag catch slot in the wrong place!

All of these must be "right" and in sync with your luger for the drum, or for an 8 round mag, to function correctly.

The GT reworked drum you receive may work perfectly in your luger when received, or it may be need a tweek; or it may be the pistol that needs attention.

I've said before, the pistol must run 100% with 8 round mags and your ammo. If not, don't even start with the drum. Get the pistol up to snuff first.:soapbox:

Then be sure the drum fits the mag well, it may need a little filing and/or polishing to slide in easily, as many lugers have smaller than average mag wells- especially earlier models and the occasional Mauser.

Don't be afraid to take the drum apart, following the instructions. You will need to re-lube the inside from time to time. I use Dupont teflon suspension lube, it is in a blue bottle with a red top.
This is the best one I have found, you can experiment with what you have though. I believe the Germans used "grease" back in WWI.; that would work too, but sure is messy. Most any oil will do, but won't last long and will need re-applying. Don't leave the magazine loaded or the spring under compression with the lever for more than loading and taking to the range(a few days).

When the drum is loaded, and the spring released; a light tap is needed to "settle" the ammo column in place. This can be done on a soft surface, your hand, or a tap with a rubber hammer. The more the drum is used the easier it becomes to load and use.

As GT said, starting with fewer than 32 rounds and working up is smart and will help you get a feel for the process. I start with 12 or 15 and work up. You don't have to shoot them out, just use a flat dowel to push the ammo out (into a box, or it will hide from you) and reload again.:thumbup:

I'm making this sound harder than it really is, but the result is sure worth it. Nothing like "dumping" 32 rounds from a luger with a trommel mag!:cheers:

GT makes a special loading/holding tool holder to be sure the loader stays on the drum. It is worth having if you are going to use the loading tool frequently.

Anyone make sleeves to go over the business end of a loaded magazine or drum? Surely the Germans didn't use a zip-loc bag like I do...
dju

Drum info!
 

Hi David and all! Don has it covered, as mentioned, he is as well versed on drums as I am..... David, a (very little!!!!) little filing on the notch makes a world of difference.. also, while on the drum, you can lightly tap the loader button with a hammer to see what is needed, but, if your loader is NOT GT revised, you have to bend the top stop lips up until the loader fits the newly revised drum, as the catch notch has been lowered at least .80" to .100" of an inch... :eek:.. If you end up going to far up, it, the drum will set too low, and not assist in ejection and stovepipe jams will result.... But, if that occurs, I will re-weld the notch and we'll run it back thru the black oxide, I'm here! :thumbup:... best to all, til...lat'r....GT:cheers:

G. T.
You are exactly correct on the fixes. I lightly filed away any burrs on the mag AND on the magazine catch button on the loader, then I bent to lips of the loader up just a bit, now it fits correctly.
dju

More drum stuff!
 

Another point in which Don is right on, is in taking the drum apart!!!! Better get used to it and while you're staring at it... :eek:... get out some 400 W/D and 3M blending pads, and POLISH the "S*#&" out of every spot of interior blue you can find!!!!!! Especially the transition from drum to vertical and the inside walls... When it's right, and fully loaded, you can "settle" the column just by squeezing the lever a bit more... :thumbup:... Remember, the first 17 rounds are on the mainspring, the next 15 are on the coil spring... if you have a problem, track where in the string it happens... I know for a fact you'll know a lot more about drums when you're through with this project!!! :cheers:... best to all, til...lat'r....GT.....:cheers:

Why would you even try as long as you my savior is available!! Deadly but nice!! I love our family!! Eric

OK,
so Numrich is not selling ANY drums anymore that are not tuned by GT.
I did actually read all 8 pages here but since it was silent for 9 months and NUmrich just shipped my drum, I thought I might better ask.

I will for sure do a drum surgery and polish a bit.

Dust cover for the drum....what solution is out there?
Replicas anywhere?

I'm not sure why you need one?
Originally they were used in the field/trenches, and probably had a reason.

An original will cost about $100.

You could for sure improvise one from a nylon mag pouch.

Don, I bought mine with my 2 drums from George~ Its like a picture frame, it completes the set! Its amazing any survived!!