Piet,
Many of these early military Lugers will have the final inspection mark stamped over a second small crown. This is particularly true of the Crown/Z and Crown/T marks on 1908 First Issue Lugers. The photo of #274f definitely has the small crown and I am qiuite sure that is the case with your beautiful Luger.

Piet
Ron gave an excellent analysis. Your 1911 DWM, sn 199f, has Crown/E Crown/E acceptance stamps on its right receiver. Also, 1911 DWMs serial numbers 8821e, 9656e, 9772e and 274f also have the Crown/E Crown/E acceptance stamps on their right receiver. Pages 16 and 439 of the book Central Powers Pistols give more information.
Jan

So what you say is that what I see as crown F, is actually crown E?
(my photo's of sn 199f is unfortunately on the previous page (page 3) of the thread) and loose contact when you only go to the last post.
Did they stamp all three marks at the same time or was this a process stamping one by one as certain tests were completed?
Piet

I also have a question on the marking on the barrel. Normally I see 8.82 on the barrel, but 1911 sn 199f says 8.83
I know it is only .01mm difference, and I know about manufacturing tolerances. But why then mark it on the barrel?
Piet

Piet
I have attached images of the C, D, E, F. and G Reportedly they applied the acceptance stamps as the final inspection/test advanced. Görtz German Small Arms Markings, page 107-123
Jan

Any comments on the 8,83 marking on the barrel (see previous photo)
Does our reference to 9mm parabellum means the exact caliber is 9mm, or is it 8,82/3 mm?
Piet

Piet,

8,83 is the land-to-land measurement of the bore of this pistol, within acceptable tolerances for 9-mm Parabellum cartridges.

Don,
Does land to land means - not groove to groove?
Piet

Exactly!

for some reason I have to always "think" about this one.

It is obvious when I think about it;

Groove to groove is like canyons on a ocean floor; while Land to land is like a jutting of land or peninsula’s sticking up from the ocean floor



That may sound silly to some folks, but its how this mind works that I have J

Piet, looking at about ten 1910, 1911 and 1912 P08's the measurements are 8.82 with a few 8.83.

Piet, another way to look at it is that it was the bore diameter before the rifling grooves were cut.

Manufacturing Tolerances
 

Piet,

Here are two extracts fromt the military Luger Blueprints from 1913:


The standar bore diameter is 8.85mm (land to land)
The standard groove diameter is 9.1mm (groove to groove)

manufacturing tolerance is + 0.01mm
or -0.03mm

A CD of very clear images of all the blueprints and including some great bonus drawings is available for purchase in the "For Sale" forum... see the "sticky" post near the top of that page...

John,Don,George,Ed
Thanks, it means that land to land the minimum bore has to be 8,82mm and the max bore 8,86mm ? Obviously they tried to obtain the minimum bore in the manufacturing process. It means that there is a possibility to "clean" or recondition it and still stay within limits? (and also leave room for wear)
Piet

Piet, what a nice rig- wonderful!
There are no problems with the acceptance marks. I can show you half a dozen of these marks. I often have seen a smaller acceptance mark under the larger. Nice that the acceptance mark of tool and receiver are the same.
As Jerry wrote: On most holsters is the marker stamp and mostly a date. Your holster is a military one and not a commercial.
Thanks for showing the nice rig with great historical background.