This is a very interesting pistol. Could you please post detail pictures of it on this forum?

This stock is illegal for this gun (or any Luger, for that matter), and should, at the very least, be stored at a completely different physical location from the pistol, where there are no other Lugers present.

--Dwight

this has already been posted under the Artillery Lugers section

1920 Alphabet Commercial info for database
 

Serial #: 8960m
Proof: c/N upright
Toggle: DWM
Export mark: Made in Germany, right side of receiver, very faint
Caliber: .30 Luger

Serial # 762
 

Maybe you can tell me more about my nice piece of engineering?:confused:
http://i1102.photobucket.com/albums/...psc32ea7c5.jpg
http://i1102.photobucket.com/albums/...pscb4777b1.jpg
http://i1102.photobucket.com/albums/...ps4eed9188.jpg
http://i1102.photobucket.com/albums/...psd69a3b4d.jpg
http://i1102.photobucket.com/albums/...ps2dd34d96.jpg

1906 (New Model):
*serial number- 762
*variation- Not Known
...Commercial (blank chamber)
...crown over N, lazy- upright
*Caliber 9mm
*Thumb safety stamped GESICHERT
*Extractor stamped GELADEN or LOADED?
*Stamped GERMANY or not? Not
short frame
*thumb safety area stamped GESICHERT
*Any additional noteworthy characteristics or unusual variation (French, etc.)? Barrel have proof stamp and what looks to be bore dimensions but not the serial number.

Mr. Gruber,

I was fortunate to find a beautiful Alphabet Luger last weekend.

Serial number 5024n
Left receiver--vertical crown over N
Right receiver proofs--none
Caliber .30
Not export marked
Krieghoff Suhl back-frame marked? No
Chamber marked?...no
DWM toggle

Hope this helps.

Bill

Bill is being humble..I have seen precious few MINT Luger's in my short collecting stint but this IS one of them. 5024n is a textbook example of one straight out of DWM. I Don't know how a 100 year old German pistol arrives at 2015 in MINT condition but it did. A real pleasure to look at.

1920 Carbine W/O Fore Stock
 

Since I posted pictures of this carbine on another thread, here is more information for the survey.

1920 Carbine W/O Fore Stock
Serial number 91273 on frame & barrel bottom
Matching
Caliber 7.65mm Parabellum
American Eagle chamber marked
Safe & Loaded
Proof marks C/N upright
Sear bar relieved
Barrel Carbine barrel
Sight Carbine sight
No Grip safety
No Fore end stock
Frame short
Made in GERMANY export mark on barrel bottom
Stock not matching
Rust Blue with Straw Colored small parts

1902 9mm Fat Barrel #22713~TKS

Just acquired a 5 digit DWM commercial. 78248 stock lug present. Bill checked and it isn't in Dwights list?

78,382 is a new number(I think). I received this as a complete frame with upper receiver.
No toggle train, No barrel; in beautiful original finish.

As of today, it has a 6" .30 cal barrel, marked "Germany" in small print left side of barrel near receiver and a mismatched Mauser 42 toggle train.

1920 DWM .30 cal.
sn 89230
Upright c/N on underside of barrel with sn and left of receiver.
Sear (not sure, probably full length) flush and strawed
No military proof
Export: GERMANY front of frame under sn
No chamber mark
Safe/ Loaded: yes, both
Matching small parts: btm of locking plate and takedown lever, rear lug below rear sight, rt. side of extractor, top of trigger (strawed).
DWM on top of toggle
No date
Lazy c/N lt. side of toggle.
Safety lever straight, raised and grooved 1/4 length.
Wooden grips, no border, no matching stamp.
Alignment marks under barrel matching receiver with a "0."

20DWM (with stock lug) (previously known as 1923 Commercial) (includes 1914 Commercial variation)
*serial number( 7726)
*proof marks, left receiver
...crown over N, lazy (on its side)
...crown over N, upright (X)
*c/X c/X c/X military proofs?
*Caliber .30 or 9mm? (9mm)
*Sear bar
...full-length (x)
...relieved
*Export marked?
...GERMANY (Upper bbl assembly left side and magazine)
...MADE IN GERMANY (top of bbl)
...location of stamp
...not marked
*Chamber marked?
...none
...date
...American Eagle stamp (x)
*A.F. Stoeger inscription?
...2-line
...3-line
*Safe/Loaded?
*Police characteristics
...sear safety
...magazine safety
...police unit mark
*Any additional noteworthy chara (6 inch bbl with non navy sights)

20DWM (with stock lug) (previously known as 1923 Commercial) (includes 1914 Commercial variation)
*serial number
*proof marks, left receiver
...crown over N, lazy (on its side)
...crown over N, upright
*c/X c/X c/X military proofs?
*Caliber .30 or 9mm?
*Sear bar
...full-length
...relieved
*Export marked?
...GERMANY
...MADE IN GERMANY
...location of stamp
...not marked
*Chamber marked?
...none
...date
...American Eagle stamp
*A.F. Stoeger inscription?
...2-line
...3-line
*Safe/Loaded?
*Police characteristics
...sear safety
...magazine safety
...police unit mark
*Any additional noteworthy characteristics

Okay, 7033k, c/N up on frame and barrel above s/n and lazy on side of toggle
Serial numbers match
No mil marks
.30 cal
Don't know about the sear bar - don't know where it is.
GERMANY marked in very small font on front face of receiver below s/n and on base of mag
No mark on ring over barrel - original finish, never had a mark there
Has hold-open but don't know about type of sear bar. No magazine safety
original checkered wood grips, intact, all #s match, original finish

http://i.imgur.com/j0191Af.jpg?2

http://i.imgur.com/O0zLVBc.jpg?1

Very Early Luger
 

Hello Dwight,

A 75 year old man came up to my table at last weekend's show and tried to describe a Luger pistol he's owned for over 30+ years (he didn't have it with him as he lives in Kalifornia). He had a young pup in his store take a few pictures and I posted them along with this message. He told me 'story' about this pistol and I will try to get him to write it down.

Receiver is not dated. Serial number 149s. Toggle marked with the DWM logo.

Let me know what other information you would want and I'll forward your request to him.

Thanks!

Bill Baumbeck

Update October 5, 2017

The individual who owns this pistol drove to Yuma today so that I could take a few photographs of his pistol I initially started this thread with.

Unless I missed it I'm surprised no one has commented on this Luger only because of its low serial number. The pistol is in very fine condition and does not show up on Dwight's list.

Any information would be appreciated.

Bill

Cyrillic Proof, 7.65 Para
 

Hello Dwight,

Here is one for you:

http://i295.photobucket.com/albums/m...20Cyrillic.jpg

http://i295.photobucket.com/albums/m...20Cyrillic.jpg

http://i295.photobucket.com/albums/m...20Cyrillic.jpg

http://i295.photobucket.com/albums/m...20Cyrillic.jpg

http://i295.photobucket.com/albums/m...20Cyrillic.jpg

http://i295.photobucket.com/albums/m...20Cyrillic.jpg

http://i295.photobucket.com/albums/m...20Cyrillic.jpg

Hi, I have a 7.65mm(Parabellum Carbine) D.W.M. 1902 American Eagle Self-Loading Carbine
No. 24623
The auction catalogue describes it as follows: the barrel with ramp-mounted bead fore-sight and adjustable rear-sight, the chamber with 'American Eagle' crest, the toggle with 'D.W.M' markings, butt with grip-safety and chequered wooden grips, and unnumbered wooden-capped magazine
11in. barrel, German nitro proof
The later detachable wooden stock with original mount serial numbered to the pistol, ebonite butt-plate, and sling-swivels: in their later fitted suede case lined in red baize with spare magazine and later cleaning rod

Condition: This pistol is in fine condition overall and retains virtually all its original slightly dulled blued finish. The bore is very clean with some very light scattered pitting. The wooden grips have some minor losses to the tips of the chequering
FOOTNOTES
Provenance
James D. Julia, Inc., Fairfield, Maine, 14-16 October 2013, lot 3091
Someone recently told me that this was not an original carbine as American Eagles were a remake in the 1930s. From reading your forum this appears to be rubbish, but I would be interested to know the date of manufacture and if there is any way of getting this certified.

Can you please post a picture~

Sorry, I'm having difficulty opening up your pictures~

OK, I have managed to upload from my computer.....

Very Nice!!

Here is the 1920 7.65mm model. #3231t! Actual carbine on cover of book!Note rear sight from original P08 stock~

DWM 1920 5 digit SN
 

I have a 5 Digit SN 80395. .30 Caliber. Upright C/N. “Germany” stamped on right side. 3 5/8” Barrel

It has been far too long since I have posted an update to the Commercial DWM Database, so I am remedying that by uploading version 6. It can be found here http://forum.lugerforum.com/showthre...690#post317690. It is a very large .pdf, comprising more than 8,200 entries. I still have a major backlog of data to enter, but I needed to get this out of my system for the next big push.

This is still a work in progress. Although I have not thanked everyone individually for their responses, I do appreciate each and every one, and am committed to their eventual inclusion. Please keep them coming.

Thanks again, everybody.

--Dwight

Dwight, I have one that shows in your database already but mine is different, My 3992l is a DWM toggle, germany marked, 3 7/8 original barrel. Upright crown N. Sharp muzzle step. Looks pretty honest . No Stoeger marking on this :-)

Heinz, thanks for that. Very possible that the Stoeger is fake.


--Dwight

I hate to give someone a big "ouch" but those Shattuck Lugers may be becoming collectors items

1920 DWM .30 cal.
3.8" bbl
sn 6172 k
Upright c/N on underside of barrel with sn, and left of cannon.
No chamber mark
Extractor: geladen
Safety: gesichert
No GERMANY stamp
Matching small parts: btm of locking plate and takedown lever, rear lug below rear sight, top of trigger (strawed).
Breechblock and extractor non-matching "42"
DWM on top of toggle
No date
Lazy c/N left side of toggle.

Restored with non-matching barrel (6346 O?), reblue, restraw and trigger job by John Lawson

Another 1908 commercial
 

Another DWM 1908 commercial for survey

1908 (no stock lug):
*serial number 69081
*proof marks, left receiver Lazy crown over N
*Stamped GERMANY or not? NOT, No import marks
*Recoil spring well spur or straight? Spur – Shaped for end of leaf recoil spring
*c/X c/X c/X military proofs? None: NO marks visible on right of gun
* additional noteworthy characteristics:

Has factory hold open (pin does not penetrate right side of frame).
No halo on any of the marks.
C/N proofs on barrel & left side of the frame shallow and seem rather sloppily done.
No bore diameter stamped on barrel. Crown N and S/N only marks on underside of barrel.
Grip panels have no serial numbers. What looks like a lower-case “i” is stamped on the inside of both panels (font looks like courier); a very ornate 2 on the right panel & a capital M on the left.
Phantom numbers. ±883 is stamped very lightly (or possibly buffed out before bluing) between the lazy c/N and the reset pin on the sear. The 8’s seem to be the same font as the others on the gun. There is no comma between the 8’s. These are the most carefully aligned marks on the gun. These numbers are visible to the unaided eye in good light only if you are expecting to see something there and the area is dry (I keep the gun soaked in CLP). I’ve owned the gun for 30 years and only noticed them in this photograph.

Normally strawed parts are black. The takedown lever, safety lever, trigger , ejector, and mag catch are a shiny deep black. The trigger & takedown lever are numbered to the gun.
I see no signs of any significant amount of metal (pitting or numbers) having been removed from any of these parts. The underside of the button on the takedown lever is hollow and the bottom of the resulting well is white (not straw), which suggests it was not fire blued, or dipped, or blued over straw. These parts probably re-blued (& very nicely) but inside of frame was not: gunmetal color on magazine tracks, stark white in the cutouts for the holdopen, and nice red rust on the inside of the frame ears and the inside of the recoil spring well.

Dwight,
Me being new to the Luger world I posted my first Luger to the P-08 thread and not this one. I would like to add this to the Database. The interesting thing for mine is that is a u suffix, no toggle stamp, and not fitted with the police upgrades (sear safety, mag safety). It has unit markings on the front strap that is illegible. I noticed on the database as it sits now that it is surrounded by police models. Its serial # 1674u, blank toggle, W2A66, and what looks like an H stamp. Where does one think this spent its life? Did it actually make it to the Riff?

http://http://i1249.photobucket.com/...ps7iu4b9b4.jpg

http://i1249.photobucket.com/albums/...pshy3zvcwk.jpg

http://i1249.photobucket.com/albums/...ps4jnbmmxm.jpg

http://http://i1249.photobucket.com/...pscqfd9cgo.jpg

http://i1249.photobucket.com/albums/...pscqfd9cgo.jpg

http://i1249.photobucket.com/albums/...pse4pdmnol.jpg

It is believed that no pistols made it to the Riff, the contract was canceled before delivery.

Your pistol spent its days in police service, and may have been part of one of the "barracked" police units that were militarized in 1938 or after, and became essentially part of the Wehrmacht.

One could think of the barracked police as riot squad/SWAT/national guard in today's terms; they received essentially military type training and were "ripe" for conversion to military troops.
There are several books that explain the somewhat convoluted nature of the police in Weimar and early Nazi Germany; they are a slog but have good information on the nature of Hitler's "Police Batallions". These police formations found significant duties in the vast, newly occupied countries and areas of Europe- from the Sudetenland to the Ukraine.

4073r, c/n proof on barrel, receiver, sideways on breechblock DWM toggle, 3 7/8 barrel, .30, Germany stamped on chamber going back to front. This is an "alphabet?"

1906 French Contract~My First Luger~

Sure sounds like it. Pictures will confirm.

Thanks Don
 

Still learning the picture thing, hope to be able to post some soon.

Mike,
why not start a new thread on your luger when you get more pictures.

Picked up at estate sale...

DWM Commercial Alphabet Luger
Serial # 4679 r
All #'s match except magazine which is stamped #1024 (police #)
Left receiver: Crown over N
caliber: 9mm
DWM Toggle (no date)
sear safety but NO mag safety
Police Unit markings: S.St. (On front of grip strap: a series of numbers after that are struck through with X marks followed by the number 1024) This matches # stamped on bottom of magazine. This appears to be a Prussian Police pistol from the Stettin District from what I have learned). I believe this gun was manufactured in 1928 or early 1929 but I could be wrong. I have no idea why the numbers on grip strap were struck out and restamped.

Anybody have any idea or seen one like this?

Here are some pics for reference...

New one for the database.

DWM Alphabet commercial.

Weimar era '29 DWM / BKIW production

sn 7258u

Police Luger

Unit marked "H.P.444." on front grip strap and front right of receiver.

Crown/N proof mark on front right of receiver.

All matching with commercial pattern small parts numbering.

Fluted firing pin.

9mm Luger caliber.

Matching number "1" aluminum based nickle plated formed tin magazine with "Asterisk S" acceptance mark and "H.P.444." marked spine.

1920 Commercial (maybe)
 

Advertised as 1920 commercial.
Ser. # 2046 f (looks more like an f than anything else. Could be a t.)
Crown N upright on right frame and under barrel.
No marks on right side.
DWM and 46 on toggle.
geladen on chamber indicator.
Lug on rear.
All matching except magazine (no number) - .30 caliber

I would appreciate it if it can be correctly identified.


Thanks, Bob

MARKER


--Dwight