I believe that is a mute pony

reason for beating this so called dead horse -
 

again jmho -- if reading threads like this keeps just one luger collector or enthusiast from committing felony by federal + many state laws + ruining aspects of their + their families lives it is worth the read -
plus remember everything posted here is mostly opinions , some based on facts , some on personal opinions , + some on internet publishing [ ie. it must be true because i read it on the internet ] ! -
unless poster is a high level executive ATF compliance official + states ruling in writing on official document it is mostly all hearsay [ plus rulings can be changed at any times sometime by order + with no public or legislative hearings -
if in doubt of any law most knowledgeable people would pay a qualified lawyer to contact ATF anonymously for a determination -
better safe then sorry - ignorance of the law is never a valid excuse in court -

Law resides within darkness and pure fiction.
It cannot sustain the scrutiny of truth when light is shone upon it.
Law only exists because we have been lied too about who we are and the nature of the reality in which we live.
The entire house of cards relies on the belief that someone external to you has power over you, when in fact by careful and simple observations, you find that they don‟t.

Money, the other partner in this mass fraud, is created out of thin air by the banks and people who wish to undermine the natural creative growth of our world and implement destructive policies that induce fear and various levels of war.
You are enslaved because you have accepted fiction as being truth.
Whenever you see people protecting something from scrutiny ask yourself why?
Truth requires no laws to protect it.

Chapter Two, "Intelligence is the ability to convince others that you are intelligent"! Truth is just anothers' opinion for that moment in time trying it out within the same facts of that single case! Facts, circumstances and new minds change daily. As Does most Truth! Each has to be considered! Thank God For The USA which protects our discussions! Law is only made by who last wrote the book!

Here is one for you to debate for a while........
You own say: 3 artillery rigs, all matching, also
1 Navy rig, all matching
1 Artillery, just pistol, shooter grade
1 Navy shooter Parts gun
BUT, you also have
4 stocks, 2- Navy, and 2-Artillery, just the stocks, originals picked up over the years at flea markets, e bay, etc...
AND own 8 P-08 Lugers. say, an S/42 collection,
Would this be legal? What if two of them stocks were reproductions? three were reproductions? OR, god forbid, all were the cheap, but accurate reproductions?

I believe EXACT COPIES INCLUDING WOOD AS THE ORIGINALS would meet the requirements~ Different serial numbers don't matter! Navy with navy boards, artillery with artillery boards and only carbines with exact copy boards are permitted! I am referring to wooden stocks~Please refer to the regs!! There are a few exceptions to some other non wooden stocks! PS There are those who disagree! ATF has the final word!

scenario one:
own 2 navy and two artillery original stocks.
OK TO OWN,
OK TO MOUNT NAVY ON NAVY AND ARTY ON ARTY.
NOT OK TO MOUNT NAVY ON ARTY OR ARTY ON NAVY

NOT OK TO MOUNT ON STANDARD P08

scenario two
repros stocks, Navy repro same as navy stock.
arty repro same as arty stock.

scenario three
cheesy not quite to spec repros, not meeting arty or navy specs. You need to get a letter from ATF for a short-barrelled rifle or make them into canoe paddles because constructive possession is coming into play and they have no legal use.

Saw advertised for sale on the Simpson’s website a Finnish contract Luger with stock but pistol has a 4 inch barrel. So if I’m reading these posts right ATF paperwork would have to accompany the gun to be legal. I would think it being advertised online that everything would have to be legal otherwise the dealer could find themselves in a jackpot. I don’t mean to keep beating that dead horse and maybe I’m naive but doesn’t the ATF have bigger fish to fry than going after some collectors that have a arty stock on a Navy Luger?
Jim

Download the C&R list from the ATF website. If you want to play the game, learn the rules.

https://www.atf.gov/file/128116/download

on page 24:

Finnish, m/23 Deutches Waffen Munitionsfabriken (DWM)-manufactured Luger pistols with
95cm or 120cm barrels, cal.’s 7.65mm or 9mm, accompanied by a German- or Finnish manufactured wooden board shoulder stock.

remember that all ATF rules + regulations can be changed or altered with out public or judicial hearings by declarations + executive actions without formal judicial approval + usually need passage of federal law to override them -

different people reading the published C+R interrupt them completely differently + the fine print is passed over and have lots of misleading statements [ IE. when mounted on pistol it was originally intended for - only when used with original , + etc. ]

better safe then sorry - if in doubt only rely on current official letters of determination pertaining to the exact item in question -


[ quote ]
[ and yes maybe I’m naïve but doesn’t the ATF have bigger fish to fry than going after some collectors that have a arty stock on a Navy Luger? ]
yes ATF does pursue all minor violations to increase their arrest + conviction records as it is one of the factors that increase their budgeting dollar amount - some agents exercise common sense , but most of their political upper management do not -

I Have done so twice!! Your section you cite does not address Luger Stocks!!!! The ATF issues opinion letters that must be each reviewed!

ITS SAID, 'To learn what you don't know is more important as to learn what you think you know"

..

https://thumbs.gfycat.com/Enchanting...restricted.gif https://i.imgur.com/hYiLU.gif https://i.imgur.com/e3tlA.gif https://i.imgur.com/noKgs.gif

Buried Alive~

link posted has not been updated since 2018 - multitudes of ATF determinations have been done every years since then -

Luger Section, Settled Exactly, Page 26-specific! These are exceptions! Everythng else is Illegal under the Curios AAnd Relics Exception~!! Sorry We don't want the Feds to come knocking!

Read thru this thread and have come to a conclusion.

If you have a question, write to ATF and ask for a written response. It is not a question of who can cite law or has the most anecdotes.

The law, as it will be enforced, is precisely what the folks with power say it is (on that day). You can argue to your heart's content but in the end you better have deep, reallllly deep pockets.

"Show me the man, and I'll show you the crime." - Lavrentiy Beria. Lavrentiy Pavlovich Beria (Russian: Лавре́нтий Па́влович Бе́рия, IPA: [ˈbʲerʲiə], Georgian: ლავრენტი პავლეს ძე ბერია, Lavrenti Pavles dze,was Beria's infamous boast. He served as deputy premier from 1941 until Stalin's death in 1953, supervising the expansion of the gulags

Joe says he has been at wth Joe Salter the ATF illegal`https://www.joesalter.com/category/p...arce-Parts-Gun https://www.joesalter.com/category/p...arce-Parts-Gun CARBINE?ARTILLERY COMBINED! I'm Sorry I am hung up! Individually own but not join the two!He has a huge store, I wonder how many were actually inspected!

After 20 years I have learned from all of you and I can tell something wrong. I just don't want to a member lay out money on the false product. He can legally sell the artillery gun and stock seperatey but not as one unit! The Law Is Clear~He refuses to listen!!! Maybe ATF will~He tell me me that ATF makes regular visits finds nothing wrong. Someone is missing the obvious!

Here is a correct carbine stock

Joe sent me a message that visits him regularly and has no problem. Time for me submit a letter!

My advice my friend:
Let sleeping dogs lie and don't create problems where there are none.

Eric, threats of squealing on a fellow collector/dealer or otherwise is probably not the best way to stay in good favor with the membership of this, or any other forum that caters to the firearms collecting hobby. We have enough people looking to shut us off in the current political environment without enemies within.

OVER, Its illegal as presentation, pisses me off! Sorry!!!

<sigh> At the risk of breathing new life into this poor animal, I did find a copy of an ATF letter regarding the use of repro stocks.

The fact that the letter itself is almost old enough to be a C&R depresses me.

Can not get any plainer than that...

Those are blind who refuse to see~

Take a deep breath.... Let it go......Just...Let it go....

1981 ruling no longer valid - current ATF posting


from ATF q+a

[ Only original Artillery and Navy Lugers are legal with a stock, and it MUST be the correct type of stock that came from the factory for the Arty, and the Navy (they are different stocks). No stock is legal on a short bbl. Luger unless you registered it as a SBR. or it is on the C+R list ]

Can not get any plainer than that...

Thank you both

Post number 72 is not different than post 68. The Q&A does not rule out repro stocks, but they have to be an appropriate repro on an original weapon.

if you put any stock on a non-typical 1920 "Carbine" you better be able to show it is original style to that exact piece. Good luck with that.

This horse is dead.

Let's keep it dead. Bill

Sounds like the current US administration

Re read this thread, again.

I think that the key point is being missed.

It does not matter what the law/rulings state, not even a little, when it comes to your interaction with the government. If cops/atf/Borg come to your house and they want you, they will get you. Why do you think federal conviction rates are so high? Because they stack charges and then politely ask if you will plead to a lesser offence.

You cannot win.

You have an ATF letter? Cool. When you go to trial in 5 years and $200,000 later, be sure to show the judge. And if you raise too much of a stink, they'll find that you passed a Canadian quarter at a kiosk and get you on illegal currency trading.

The moment you are in the system you are being punished. If they want you, they will get you.

Lets have ENOUGH of this subject

closed