RShaw,
regarding helpless,
At no time in my entire life have I been able to deal with multiple attackers. Yes that has occurred on more than one occasion.

There was a time when I could outrun a threat, then I had children to protect so running was not an option.

Children are now out on their own but unfortunately age and shin splints has ended that era.

I am glad to see you are examining your defense options as failure to plan is planning to fail.
The odds are that the plan will never be needed - but someone always does win the lottery

Over 170,000 people die annually in the US due to miscellaneous accidents, far and away most involve automobiles. Not counted in accidents, less than 40,000 deaths are firearms-related and most of those are suicides. Drug-related deaths exceed firearms-related deaths almost 2 to 1 (70 thousand deaths due to drugs in 2019)

We have over 330 million people in the US which means we have 330 one-in-a-million violent nut jobs. My guestimate is 3/4 of them are undiagnosed, 1/3 of them are gang or cult members, and 1/2 of them are in congress.

Do not be fooled by the press

Food for thought!

If I could get back to the thread... :rolleyes:

How far can you disassemble the de-activated Luger???

Probably not too far... I would just try the normal field strip and see where it stops.
Can you push the barrel back against the spring?
Can you rotate the take down lever down?
Can you take off the side plate?
etc.

Good questions... Since standards for de-activation seem to vary according to country, and have also changed/tightened at least in the U.K. (IIRC) I'm curious to see pics of all that was done.

Well, even though it can't be fired, a few advantages are:
- no need for expensive and time consuming documentation,
- cleaning is minimal (wipe down the outside once in a while?)
- it still makes a nice display piece / wall hanging, AND
- there is a significant market for deactivated weapons- they're not cheap!
(ex. museum mannekins are dressed in uniform, often fitted with deactivated weapons)

So, enjoy it! I have a deactivated M1 Garand on my wall, I don't regret it. Has all the accessories,a sling as well, and my grandchildren ask questions about it..........

Robert, how are your guns deactivated in the Netherlands? I know in the UK, for example the “old spec deacs” (as our British brethren refer to them) have destructive modifications like drilled and pinned barrels, cut/welded bolt faces, etc. but can be cycled, field stripped, etc. while “new spec deacs” have the same destructive modifications but are further welded essentially solid. How are things done in the Netherlands?

As a Uk “early spec” deactivated Luger
Yes the takedown lever works
Yes you can remove the side plate
Remove the barrel
Remove the mag
And yes you can push the barrel back against the
Spring tension.
I think there are two separate points of view on the go here.
Those who own guns and enjoy the right of being able to go out and shoot them.
Which I totally get.
And guys like me who’s interest is more focused on collecting Militaria of Ww2.
I cherish my Luger as an important part of arms / engineering history
And a highly desirable trophy of both world wars
Martin

Hi Bill,

In NL it's a complicated process- here below an oversimplified description: essentially the gun's action is either welded immobile, or removed. Barrel is blocked with lead, firing pin removed and cavity filled, the gun is rendered imoperable and non restorable. It costs about EUR 250, and a certificate is issued affirming that EU deactivation norms are fullfilled.

My M1 Garand has had the action removed, but the spring loaded loading lever can still be moved back and forth. The rest of the gun looks fine.

The laws here are crafted so that, if one legally owns, transports, and uses a firearm, it will be essentially impossible to
- use a firearm in self defense,
- quickly access and load a firearm for self defense,
- render a deactivated firearm operational.
- create a situation where the firearm is easily accessed by unauthorized persons (children or bandits)

When I first came here, I was presented with the choice to either deactivate, or sell my Winchester Model 94 (pre-64) carbine which had been given me by my students when I left the US. Deactivation was, in my mind, out of the question, a shame to mutilate a beautiful piece of engineering. Therefore, I sold it. Never saw it again :(

But now that I've lived here for a while, and now that I understand the culture better, I can appreciate why people do this to their guns. There IS a market for these things, and I did acquire the Garand since my shooting permit is full (max 5 firearms) and I was looking for something with which to show my grandchildren "the real thing" together with an item to hang on my wall.

We do have "permit-free" weapons, in easy terms, these are any gun built before 1870, and any black powder weapon built before 1945. This is over simplified, but is the essence of the distinction between "permit-free" and "permit-required." One can have as many "permit-free" or deactivated weapons as you like!

I do have "permit-required" collector guns as well as shooters; I have decided not to have any of my guns deactivated, but rather let them go to other colectors who will preserve and appreciate them. OR my children can have them if they go through the process of getting a permit.

It is like getting a Pit Bull for protection then having to neuter the poor feller.

I know.

But we live where we live. People have 3 options: comply with the laws of the land OR leave the country OR try to change local laws. Here’s where the buck stops.

I watch those Hickok45 gun demo videos- that range behind his house is AMAzing! That is unheard of here. As he would say, “Pretty cool!!”

One last question from me the owner of the deactivated Luger that started this post.
I get the impression that my Luger is a nice genuine example that went through ww2
Before being refurbished in east Germany post war.
But might it have seen wermacht service?
It has Mauser military proof marks but no waffenampt stamps ??
Any thoughts
Thank you
Martin

Good question- interesting. Can we assume that EVERY gun that saw service in the Wehrmacht had Waffenamt stamps? I doubt that myself. But I'm not a Luger expert, but rather a Luger "appreciator / enthusiast / student."

How does one deactivate a luger? By removing the firing pin?? Can It Me Reactivated? Anything more is MURDER!

Firing pin removed and cavity filled with hot lead
Barrel similarly filled
Trigger locked
Action welded immobile
Magazine can be inserted and removed but that’s all

Objective is to render the gun inoperable and irreparable, but without changing the outside appearance.
There IS a market for all matching deactivated pieces- no permit needed, nice display item :)
Also displayed in museums and used in re-enactments.
Different culture here! Enjoy the 2nd Amendment!!
MURDER you say? Yup! First degree and premeditated :(

!!I would rather throw it in the ocean. Is there some cruel law that demands this stupidity !Every luger I love like family! Respect for all the previous owners and their lives!! Luger Lobotomy. HERE Here IS MY HERO! https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lW0qDsMIAlk

Yes there is a law that demands deactivation of a classic (or any non- “permit-free”) firearm if you want to own it. If you are over 18, and have any kind of police record, or mental illness background, or any other history which causes police to question your fitness to own / transport / operate or store a firearm, you are not permitted to own / transport / operate / store said firearm.

If you are under 18, no firearms at all, period.

For people who find themselves in the above categories, the only legal firearms are those which are deactivated or those which are “permit-free.” That means those which use black powder and were made before 1945, or any smokeless based gun made before 1870. This “permit-free” description is an over-simplification- the laws are quite complex.

However, once you acquire either a shooting permit or a collector’s license you CAN LEGALLY have a LUGER in your house! Shooting permit- 5 max. Collector’s permit- the sky is the limit.

There is a separate article on this forum dealing with how one obtains a permit here.

Of course you must meet certain specific conditions in the storage / transport / operation of your firearm if you want to avoid its confiscation and your being fined and/or jailed. These criteria are outlined in that same article.

Some people don’t see it as stupid. They just think differently. I’m not at all being sarcastic or nasty here. I’m just taking a non judgmental position and citing basic facts.

Martin,

Your Mauser P08 does have the 3 WaA applied military acceptance markings on the left side.

So it started life as a Military contract P08 and went through the DDR / GDR rework program after 1945.

The magazine is a typical East-German example.

A small caveat for Dutch collectors of deactivated guns:
If the magazine can be removed from a deactivated gun, the magazine itself is illegally owned when one has no gun or ammo permit.

Only when the magazine is welded fixed to the gun, it's ok.

A small caveat for Dutch collectors of deactivated guns:
If the magazine can be removed from a deactivated gun, the magazine itself is illegally owned when one has no gun or ammo permit.

Ahh yes... good point. Thanks Vlim.

I wonder if Sling-Shots will be legal??

Thanks Vlim
I am confusing the eagle over Swastika
And eagle over 135 that I have on a P38.
Excuse my ignorance , but what do these represent?
And how do they differ from the Mauser military proof marks on my Luger ?
Thank you
Martin

Yes, Cirelaw, as far as I know, slingshots are legal.

I don't mind the light jokes that sometimes show up when talking about US versus EU gun laws, but I do detect a bit of sarcasm / condescension every so often. Maybe that's just me. Sometimes I throw around a few jokes myself, when I get upset or frustrated.

It is true that the laws here are strict; some would call them Draconian, but I have come to have a healthy respect for them, and for the people who pass these laws. As an American, as a pro-gun person, and as a pro 2nd Amendment person, I do get frustrated with the time it takes to buy or sell a gun, and the paperwork needed; at the same time, I am grateful for the opportuniies that we DO have here, to own, use, and collect special firearms like classic LUGERS, vintage COLTS, and quality SMITH & WESSONS, together with all kinds of other makes and types of firearms.

Police are respectful when they come to inspect; after 10 minutes of official duty, we often have 20 minutes of a light hearted conversation since I know them well and they know me.

God is good.

Martin,

The process is quite similar. You have 1 test firing proof, 1 technical acceptance proof and one final acceptance proof.

Basically the military way to waste money. They serve no greater purpose than to satisfy military requirements that were agreed upon in contract.

As a Mauser engineer once said, they were making military proofs with guns as a byproduct :)

Depends on the situation. There is a construction called intended use. Basically every day objects can and will be treated as illegal weapons based on the circumstances they are found in.

I wasn't be sarcastic towards you but the law. I am an Attorney since 1981 and totally against such restrictions! NRA Eric

I wasn’t be sarcastic toward you but the law...
I know that Eric, and thank you for you reply :)

What about a magazine that's been rendered inoperative by completely removing its spring and follower?

Castration with a dull butter knife!!!!

The current law does not take the condition of a magazine into consideration. So if it was constructed to be a magazine, it will be a magazine. But I doubt that owners of gutted magazines will be prosecuted. But it is possible and stranger things have happened.

Deactivation
 

Referring to the value and choice of deactivation over original. Recently a Jersey auction house sold a deact for £2150. This is more than I paid to purchase full twin mag matching P08 & P38 rigs.

On the one hand the deact has a wider market, on the other, the purist could choose the licenced original route - if open to them.

May I never be forced into deactivating these.

Auction results & original P38/P08 follow:

Really interesting , thank you.
Just out of interest, what are the deact speculations there?
What we class in the Uk as early spec ( cocks dry fires and strips)
Or EU , no field strip ?

Also , beautiful pair of rigs, love the p38 holster

Debby and I were held at gun point by 2 masked intruders who holding a gun pointed at us both in bed. They kicked in our front door and fired three shots to the ceiling! Although I had loads of lugers, we were defenseless. Nobody got hurt and no arrests! At appeared the only left with Debbys' handbag~h It shook up Debby and she got a Florida concealed weapons permit and bought a Taurus 9mm auto that she keep within arm reach. And Italian Granny with a 9mm allows us both some protection! Be safe! Eric & Debby

Caution
 

Dear Lugerforum Members. May I remind you all to go back to the original "rules' or Lugerforum Decorum and refresh your minds on what may or may not be discussed or argued on this forum. Let's keep the discussion to the P-08 and it's engineering, history, unique peculiarities and just plain attractiveness... and keep out of politics ... or this thread will have to be NUKED.

Thanks for your understanding and (not so voluntary) compliance. :crying:

Kind regards to you all.

-John S
Lugerforum Admin

A baseball bat might be one example. It would immediately be perceived as a deadly weapon it you're swinging it at someone's head. But one can sometimes be perceived the same way if it's found inside your car. Keeping a ball and glove with the bat is perhaps a good way to allay that perception. ;)

Because our hands can be used as a deadly weapon, they might outlaw our hands next!!!

I guess I better invent a small portable hand guillotine so I can make some money off their next move. 😂

A mere butter knife can be as deadly! I wonder if it is considered as a deadly weapon???? How about a fork? https://www.justiceflorida.com/when-...deadly-weapon/

Texas Deadly Weapon Defined~ https://statutes.capitol.texas.gov/docs/PE/htm/PE.1.htm