Excellent, hopefully the parts won't get any air time! :D

Well Rich, I like it :)

Just make sure there's a basket in front of the bench...Maybe put a second target in the basket...Score a 'two-fer'... :rolleyes:

gorilla glue?

Or drill it for a little wire lanyard... :)

whatever and thats not the kids saying of whatever but whatever works :)

Ejector Question
 

A question for any Erma conversion kit owners - The ejector does not have the 'hooks' that the 7.65/9mm Luger ejector has. There is nothing to hold the ejector in the receiver. When assembling it, I have to hold it in until the frame ears press against it.

The receiver I am using has an ejector slot just a bit smaller than the Erma ejector. I don't want to do any filing or machining, at least not quite yet.

The ejector doesn't seem to do anything. Pumping fired case through it, the extractor pulls the case out and when it clears the chamber, the firing pin flings it out. It doesn't even get back to the ejector.

I've been cycling it without the ejector and everything seems to work just fine. But because the ejector is wider than the receiver slot, it drags on the frame ears. It doesn't return to battery. It doesn't slide easily with the ejector in place. It's not fully seating.

Picture of Erma parts below.

Any users have any comments??? :cheers:

Rich, my SE 08 set does not have an ejector, it uses an extended right rear feed lip of its mag. I think the mag for yours will have no such protrusion. Anyway, my kit fits fine in my 29/70 Mauser, but it will not install on my 1917 DWM because the sear and the lug on the kit's firing pin do not line up correctly, and the fit of the liner in the barrel is simply too tight. I'm wondering if your setup might not be more at home in a 70s' Mauser.

Also, the extractor appears to be the same as would be found in the KGP 68A Erma pistols--the .380 and .32 autos. Though there's one for sale on eBay right now, they're normally scarce as hens' teeth.

Excellent thought; one that had not occurred to me. :(

The box does look brand-new; the individual parts all look new & unworn. The only 'wear' now is where I took a stone to the barrel liner/chamber edge area, to get a measurement for my chamber plug. (There was still a sharp edge, with a burr). The printed instructions are also new-looking; no fading or discoloration, no creases or dog-ears.

No protrusion on the magazine.

I noticed that my reamer pilot would not enter the Ermal barrel liner, although it did/does enter the 7 1/2" barrel. The Erma bore is just slightly smaller than the 7 1/2" barrel bore. I suppose the Erma is not manufactured to SAAMI standards as any US barrel would be.

Did or does Erma still make these conversion units? Did they make conversions for the 70's Mauser Lugers? :confused:

Is Erma still in business? :confused:

Erma is no longer in business. Any kits or parts need to be scrounged from existing stocks.

Took it to the range this morning. Pic below. If you look real close at the target, in the 10-ring, you'll see...Nothing. I missed the paper completely. :roflmao:

Crappy cell phone pic. Usually takes good pics (3.2Mpixel). :grr:

Action wouldn't move/shoot with ejector in place. Taking it out, I could shoot single-shot. Had other problems; re-thinking my original idea. :rolleyes:

The bear definitely ate me today... :banghead:

Any ideia where they hit, high; low; left; right?
If they're consistent you're in business.

I'm not going to try modifying any Erma parts. The complete 'kit' is too valuable. ;)

Did Erma make a specific 'kit' for the 70's Mauser Lugers??? :confused:

I don't think so. Erma was already half dead when Mauser gave a second life to Lugers.
I think Vlim should be the best source for accurate information about that.

Rich, what would you charge to reproduce the rearmost piece for this kit--the one with the sight notch, buffer bolt & spring, thru which the replacement rear toggle axle goes? There's a kit on GB I'm interested in, and it is missing that part, no mag for it, but a MecGar included.

My take on what these best fit is that the examples available to Erma at that time were the 70s' Mauser production. If likely used as a basis for dimensions of a kit, then those would be the best guns for fit.

I could send you up one of my mags for the SE 08 kit to try out. As I said, one of the ears shows up in the right place to act as their ejector. You could remove the original ejector and use the mag for this earlier system in your setup. If this solves the ejection problem, it sounds like you'd be all set for shooting, if everything else continues to behave properly. Sarco has new springs for the SE 08/2, and some other misc. parts.

Hundreds of dinars... :D

PM sent! ;)

I'll get to the PM in a moment, didn't notice it at the top. The reason I came back to the thread this time is to comment further about your kit's extractor. And a dinar is still $0.001, I hope!:evilgrin:

It has the same system of staying in place as it does in the KGP series by Erma. Several of mine have thrown their extractors during use--or simply arrived without them. The latest was replaced upon the pistol's arrival and was gone at the end of the first test mag. I've been puzzling over just what, mechanically, is going on to cause this. It's not 100% the design because some throw the extractors and many do not. One difference I can see is for the potential for tolerances to add up with bad results in the way the breech block, with the extractor's tip leading the way on the journey to battery, might go awry. The extractor's tip must clear the notch in the receiver, and I'm wondering if there is enough play of 1)the breech block within the upper and 2) the extractor within its slot in the breech block, for the extractor to be offset enough in relation to the extractor cut to jam into it when the action is slamming back home. My plan is to relieve--very slightly--the sharp corners on the front of the extractor on the worst offender I have, then test, test, test, to become confident one way or the other as to the results of the "adjustment". To be on the safe side, I might shoot from within a big cardboard box to keep the flying parts around where I can find them. A backyard range with grass is anathema to finding spent brass, let alone a tiny piece of blued steel.

The extractor is a sloppy fit. The bottom of the extractor has a round button that fits in a round recess at the bottom of the extractor cut. The button is bigger in diameter than the slot...Or appears to be...The slot is actually wide enough for the extractor to slip out the front, instead of straight up, as it appears it was designed to. :(

It does hit the slot in the chamber face when closed. If the slot was deepened, it would either cut into the chamber or into the barrel insert. It might be a solution to trim back the snout of the extractor so it doesn't hit the slope in the insert.

hey, if I can pay in dinars I am set. Heck, I brought home a couple hundred from Iraq ;)

single shot is a lot better than it was :D

I was referring more to hitting the sides on the way in. I've noticed the same thing you've noted, and will consider swiping the front of the extractor across the grinding wheel a couple of times so it doesn't jump up like that when the breech block is fully in battery. I'm not sure it influences the flying out deal, though.

The cheap-o zinc Ermas had an arrangement very similar to the P.08, with a vertical spring under the tail, and a pin that holds the danged thing in--although the extractor itself has a very different profile.

The Erma extractor we're discussing is mounted most precariously. What retains it is the tension from the spring and plunger behind, pressing it into the front top edge of the vertical hole into which the extractor's "tail" drops. The swelling below where the plunger's tip rests would, combined with the forward tension from the spring, tend to keep it in place. The guy that produced a round of home made CNC replacements said he deepened the little dimple there. When the extractor rocks up while hopping over the round's rim, it seems to me that this method of retention of the part gets a little dicey. A deeper dimple might actually help.

I've given this a bit of thought, and think what happens is like you say: When the beveled front of the extractor hits the slanted cut in the barrel insert, it is levered up and back at the same time. As you point out, only the tail of the plunger keeps it in the breech cut. The back of the breech cut is a drilled hole, and the cut is a few thousandths less than the diameter of the hole. The extractor has that button on the back/bottom that should be greater dia than the cut, but isn't quite.

I think that John was right about that first shot being too powerful [Remington Viper 22, no FPS or pressure rating on the box] that when the extractor rebounded and hit the insert slant, it jarred the extractor button up far enough to disengage from the bottom of the drilled hole [the dimple], and it sailed forward...

The basic design seems OK; it's just sloppy German workmanship! :D

If all else fails, there's always the mini-lanyard!

For posterity, here's the parts schematic...

And an "Instruction Manual" for what must be an early SE08/2...

Here is a German source http://www.germanguns.de/export/guns...ngen/ews08.jpg for parts for these kits. Their pricing is in USD, so I think they export without a problem. Whoever bought that incomplete kit may find his missing components here. Maybe not, as plenty of parts pages are not updated very well, if at all. I think I will look into what they may have.

BTW, I just bought a raft of Erma internals and other stuff for many models. I won't know exactly what until they arrive this week sometime. I'll start a thread about this enterprise as soon as I know what I have, but I will definitely be looking to sell any and all of it.

CCI MiniMags 40 gr. RN = 1235 fps at muzzle. Remington Targer, 1200 fps. Or maybe lose a couple of coils of the action spring!

I had to search around in the data provided by various sellers, etc. online to compile a list of muzzle velocities for the various .22lr 40 gr. rounds one might be able to buy. Sorry, I can't find that list at the moment, but one could reconstruct it with a half hour's work.

Rich, what velocity are you looking for?

I have a range I could / would send you?

But I need dog food too if you go out....

I bid on the kit with the rear block-site missing and no 22LR mag, figuring I could find a part, but it went over my price. I previously bought an Erma Erfurt kit for $400 missing the cardboard box, but complete with toggle group, magazine and two barrel cover/ spacers for the 7" 22LR barrel insert, one for a 4" and one for a 6" 9mm barrel. I've seen other kits for $400 complete, so if it is missing the mag, as this one was (a mecgar 9mm mag won't do), it isn't worth it. A 22LR mag to fit a standard P-08 runs $300-400. I also bought a frame with barrel for my 22LR kit, see 2787 in unit ID for pictures.

See what/where??? :confused:

You can post links; we don't mind...But attaching a pic to your post would be much better... :)

Here's an alert to you guys with the SE 08/2 Erma kits - This pin came out and plonked on the bench after shooting nine rounds single-shot... :eek:

I put it back in but I no longer trust the kit. Things keep coming apart... :rolleyes:

All of these neat posts about .22 conversions finally prodded me to rummage around in my unfinished projects box. Quite a number of years ago I acquired an American Eagle barrel/receiver in which someone had permanently installed a .22 conversion liner. As you can see from the photo, there wasn't a lot of original barrel remaining after it was bored out to accept the liner. I also found an interesting Erma .22 conversion toggle. It is the only one I have seen that has an adjustable rear sight. I have a couple of .22 conversion magazines but I have never put them all together on a frame to check it out. Maybe one of these days....

Ron, Camon..give it a try...you're almost there! How can you sleep at night not knowing...

Tomorrow is a good day... :)

***************************************************

There's a "Nazi" Erma conversion unit on GB, it almost looks like an adjustable rear sight (but I guess it's not!)...Quite different from the kit I looked at...

When you put the 7" 22 barrel in, DO NOT cut it down (as done above). A complete kit should come with two barrel covers for the extension out the front of the barrel. One for a 4" barrel, the cover being 3", and a second for Lugers with 6" barrels, the cover being 1". Each will leave a short section of threads for the two locking nuts.

[Also if you look at my entry under "Unit Markings" you can see pics of my frame #2787, unit 7.D.18.]
http://forum.lugerforum.com/showthread.php?t=33245

Addendum: As Sheepherder's pin came out above, mine was also loose. I peened it in on both sides and it has a vertical locking pin on the left side that also secures it. I hammered this locking pin in tight with a VERY small punch. Georg seemed to like these little locking pins. He also used one to secure the take down lever and a larger one on the safety lever. My first Luger was missing these last two pins, but worked fine. I have since put some pins in to tighten up these levers.

I found a parts breakdown for the Erma unit...

Erma Wechselsystem SE08/2
 

Dear all, great forum!!

I just got the Erma Wechselsystem SE08/2 für 08 Pistolen, Kaliber 22lfB, for my 1917 P08.

Is there any vital part missing in the box? Or are all essential items in the box for safe shooting?

I assume it is a post war Wechselsystem but will fit to my model of 1917.

Any of your hints/experience on using this system are very welcome:bigbye:

Greetings from sunny Bavaria

bigbuck

From 9-11-2014: [QUOTE Will post photos when I get back to Fl. next month. ][/QUOTE]

kina forgot about this post -Will check out what I have next time I get over to my safe and report back.....sorry, Hugh

bigbuck
Can't really tell from the photo but you should have an ejector and a rear joint bolt. Bill

Hello,:bigbye:

ejector and rear pin was hidden but included, lucky i am.

System works and now i have to find the best ammo therefore.

bigbuck

Modern "hi-speed" .22 lr will be needed for most sub-caliber kits. Standard velocity ammo is not quite "hot" enough to function the toggle. At least that has been my experience.

The Germans elected to go with the longer barrel in the .22 kit to get just a little more velocity and better function from the kit. I believe this is explained in the Goertz and Sturgess book.