Just found that the Hodgdon website shows a load using W231. It is for a 93 grain FMJ bullet. Maximum load at 4.2 grains. Now at least I have somewhat of a starting point with W231.

I found the same recommended starting charge for HP-38, but found it didn't lock the slide back on empty. So I upped the charge a little at a time until slide lock back happened. KW

Update--I loaded some of the 100 grain round nose flat point bullets. I started at 3.0 grains of W231. Then 3.2--3.4--3.8--4.0--4.2. The toggle would not work with 3.2--3.4, but started to work with 3.8. 4.2 worked well. BUT the bullets were key holing at 7 yards as the bullets rear does measure .309, but the rest of the bullet then abruptly tapers to .306. I am going back to the few .90 grain hollow points I have and will post those results soon.

Hi,

Even though the original DWM bullets were at .309, the groove diameter in these is .311, so don't be afraid to try fatter bullets.


Sieger

Your load with the 100gr LRNFP bullets may not be stabilizing the bullet, and allowing it to tumble.

Update number two--basically my reloads suck. The Luger (as I stated earlier) was not designed to shoot hollow points so they like to hang up on the feed ramp. Also, comparing these to factory ammo, my loads are too light. I was lucky to hear from Western Bullet today and hope to get some RNL at .93 grains. When I do, I will try to develop a proper load for my gun.. It does shoot great with factory loads.

Hi,

Many hollow point bullets feed just fine in Lugers!

Please search for the post I did on how to determine proper O.A.L. for a new bullet type. In it, I explain it all.

By the way. DWM did, indeed, make hollow points in 7.65mm, for use in Lugers.

Sieger

Glad that you finally got in contact with Western bullets. I have loaded a fair amount of their bullets with good results.

If you measure the Western Bullet LRN, you will find a diameter in the .310-.312in. range(+/-). They work out well in the original(generous) Luger barrels.....not so much in my Bar-Sto barrels in 30 Luger that are not bored oversize, actually, quite tight.

I load these bullets as long as possible(OAL). I seat them to where the case mouth is just covering the lube groove. Since the 30 Luger head spaces on the case shoulder, and not the case mouth, your taper crimp is not as critical, but don't overcrimp them. They function well for me, and I hope that they do for you also.

Keep us informed.

You can't find fiocchi bullets ?
I use them , work nicely

Sorry to disagree, but I believe that these particular hollow point bullets are not well liked by my Luger. (Or my friend's Luger) They are Hornady XTP. This has a flat point jacketed hollow point. I loaded them to 1.166 OAL when the manuals say 1.175 is max. for OAL. I have some .86 grain bullets coming from Midway that measure .308 and some .93 grain from Western that measure .309. I am looking forward to finally having the correct bullet to load and am sure I will be successful here. And finally to rhuf--how about sharing your load data--powder type and amount of grains for those bullets you get from Western? It sure might make my life a bit easier. Thanks to all for the help.

I really wish that we could purchase Fiocchi 93gr FMJ bullets in the USA, but they are not available here. We can only purchase the Fiocchi ammo loaded with these bullets. I would purchase a lot of them in a heartbeat if they were available at a decent price point.

My loads for the Western Bullet are:

(1) 93gr LRN Bullseye 4.0gr @ 1.150+/- OAL This loading is reported as being a duplicate of factory loading.

(2) 93gr LRN Unique 5.1gr @ 1.157+/- OAL I have not been able to fully test this load, but have high hopes for it.


These loads are NEAR/AT MAX LOADINGS, so back off 10% from my numbers of powder loads, and work them up for your Luger.

Good luck, and keep us informed as to outcome.

I went to the range today with .86 grain bullets loaded at 3.8 and 4.1 of Bullseye. OAL was 1.158 +/- . Since I don't have a chronograph, I go by feel. Recoil was much less than Fiocchi factory ammo. They would not feed properly as they short stroked. I am going to increase the OAL to match the Fiocchi bullet and gradually increase the powder. I will keep you posted. Also I went to a gun show yesterday and they had a great deal of the Fiocchi ammo, so I was able to get ammo that does work great in my Luger.

I ask to a german seller where I buy my bullets : they don't send in USA , sorry
http://egun.de/market/item.php?id=5048041

I worked these loads up several years ago, they functioned fine in my Lugers. Sorry nothing in the requested powders, as stated by others, fast powders like Bullseye, Red Dot & WW231/HP38 did not function well in my tests. The slower powders worked best;, Unique, Blue Dot, Green Dot ,HS-7, IMR SR4756.

Perhaps a bit of explanation here might help. I did load this caliber about 50 years ago with Bullseye and worked up the load myself. No manuals existed then (at least for me) and the bullet was a .93 grain lead bullet used for plinking in a 30-30 or 30.06. There was only one person in the Cincinnati area that sold reloading equipment and he told me how to work up a safe load. That is long past and I got out of reloading for many years completely forgetting that load. I now have been reloading many years in many calibers but that Luger stumped me. I am loading for that same Luger I bought as a teenager (age 16)(with Mom's help) and this was my first handgun. (Mom could out shoot me with it)

More updates. Another trip to the range. My previous load of 4.1 of Bullseye did short stroke the toggle. I had three loads to try today 4.3-4.5 -4.7 of Bullseye. .86 grain bullet OAL of 1.118 +/- matching the factory Fiocchi OAL. Funny thing, the longer OAL bullet loaded with 4.1 did try to work the toggle. Today the shorter seated bullet matching factory OAL at 4.3 grains would not work the toggle at all. Surprise--when I went to the 4.5 load the gun worked perfectly as did the load of 4.7. Comparing the factory load to the 4.7, the 4.7 felt a bit stronger recoil wise and the 4.5 close behind the factory load in felt recoil. I will try 4.6 next and check all carefully for signs of excessive pressure. Again I thank all that have helped me here and am quite happy that I finally seem to have a working safe load.
(Actually the OAL was decreased to match factory OAL. Sorry for any confusion)

So glad to hear that you have found a functioning load for your Luger. As has been stated so many times, each Luger is an individual, and it is different from others. As handloaders, we have to experiment with brass, primers, powders, bullets, OALs to find the correct combination we seek. A certain amount of pride is experienced once a base combo is found, and a smile seems to form on one's face. You now can work in both directions and with other components to see what works the best for you. This is the art of handloading to me.

When a slower powder becomes available to your area, you might just want to give it a try. I check daily for some 8# bottles of Unique, but nothing yet.

Back from the range again. The 4.6 works well with no signs of excessive pressure. So 4.5-4.6 is my load for this old Luger. I will start working up a load for .93 lead as soon as they arrive.

I usually use the softest load that will function 100%. These "old girls" are near/over the 100 year old range, and I try not to break any parts. I have had to replace a couple of extractors and a firing pin spring guide over the years. Are you using a fluted firing pin or the old solid pin?? If you are not using a later model fluted one, I will recommend one to you. You can purchase the aftermarket ones for cheap, and the originals for more money. They will channel the chamber pressure safely, in case you experience a pierced primer, and not destroy the breechblock.

I did find a loading for 4.5 grains of Bullseye with an .85 grain jacketed bullet. This was the max load. These newer manuals usually show lighter loadings then the older manuals. As far as the firing pin/striker, I haven't looked at in a long time and don't know what a "fluted" one should look like. When I replaced one in a friend's gun the new one (not original) looked the same as mine. I will probably try some of the .93 grain lead bullets in my gun and have found a loading of 4.2 grains of Bullseye for this bullet. (new Lyman manual) I probably will only load a few and then put the gun away as it has a great deal of sentimental value for me. The factory .93 grain Fiocchi are quite stout, but Lugers don't work with light loads.

Cliff,

The "fluted"/"relieved" firing pin is easy to spot. Three cuts were made into their front ends, starting a bit behind the tip and extending back far enough to make notches in the front edge of the main body. The prevailing theory about why this operation was performed is that the three notches allow an escape route for high pressure gasses produced by a pierced primer, as opposed to turning the f.p. into a gas piston which rams back to destroy the firing pin guide and possibly the breech block itself. Some think the relief cuts were to allow the firing system to accommodate a greater accumulation of crud before binding from the buildup.

I agree with that !!
For pressure , in Finland or neighboring country, they do a hole under the breech : that works for this job !

Patrice, does this example have both a relief hole in the breech block and a relieved firing pin? I'm leaning toward pressure relief as the inspiration for the firing pin cuts, and see the relieved bolt as another option for doing the job. That would make longer operation without thorough cleaning an bonus--a not-necessarily-intended side-effect... if the pictured example is representative and does not have a relieved firing pin. If it properly has both, then the scale tips toward tolerance of debris!:) Since reference material recording such a change is missing--presumably forever--then we will never have a definitive answer.:crying:

The hole seems to be on most of the Finland lugers , contrat WWII

Patrice,
Thank you for posting that breechblock modification. I tried to remember what country performed that modification. I responded to a question about a Luger that had two holes drilled in the breechblock like a Borchardt. I thought it might function like the hole drilled in the breechblock for pressure relief that this was done by some country but couldn't remember which one.

Nope, don't think I have ever seen the "fluted" firing pin/striker. All the ones I have seen start with a point the stretches back to a cone shape, no cuts at all. The pin is hollow to accommodate the striker spring and the spring guide. I have two Lugers and a friend's Luger and have not seen the pin you describe. My Luger is a 1920 Commercial all original with all matching parts. My other Luger is a 1917 Artillery with another date of /1920. I was told this reflected a factory overhall. The only part not numbered here is the firing pin, so we think it is a factory replacement. Thus the reason for the second date. It is in 9mm while the 1920 Commercial is .30 caliber.
This forum is fairly new to me and I only know enough about Lugers to get in to trouble. Again, I appreciate the help and information here.

Probably the final posting. I tried the #48 Lyman manual loading for .93 grain lead I got from
Western bullet. The manual shows 3.5 to 4.0 for Bullseye powder. Both worked well. The 3.5 was lower in felt recoil compared to factory and the 4.0 was closer in felt recoil to factory. I will use the 3.5 load as it worked. The reason this is probably the final posting from me is, as explained earlier, that this is my first handgun purchased over 50 years ago with Mom's help and one that she shot. It is a grand ol' lady that will be retired back in my safe. Thanks again to all that gave help.

Glad to hear that you had a good loading experience with the Western Bullet 93gr LRN bullets. I, also, am pleased with how this projectile functions in my lugers. I understand why you want to keep this Luger safe and sound, and only shoot it on special occasions. I own a couple of special handguns also.

Hi,

The Finns are extraordinary Riflemen!!

Anyone who can take a dog Mosin Nagant and turn it into a half-minute rifle at 100 meters, must be good!!!


Sieger

I didn't think I would be adding anything but here goes. I found some new Starline brass for the .30 cal. at a gun show and had the .93 grain lead from Western bullet. The lead measures .309. Upon trying to reload some of these, I found I was cutting a lot of lead. I tried using a .32 cal. expander plug--bad idea for a number of reasons. Then I realized that an expander plug flares the brass just a bit. I then went for a chamfering tool. This deburred the inside of the case and allowed the lead bullet to seat a bit and with NO lead cutting. I also wanted to make sure the bullet would not move in the case and I measured the OAL and then struck the bullet nose against the table top. No change in OAL. Problem solved. Hope this may help others.

Finally scored some Unique powder at the Indy 1500 gun show yesterday. I will work up some loads.

Cliff- glad that handloading the .30 Luger has worked out well for you. I really love shooting Lugers with the .30 cartridge even more than the 9mm ones. Bill

Cliff,

I sure wish that I could find some Unique powder to purchase in my area.....glad you found some. I am interested in how, you and your Luger, like loading with this powder. It is working out real good for me currently.

I got the ol" girl back out of the safe and tried some .93 grain lead bullets with 4.5 and 5.0 of Unique. Both worked well, therefore I will stay with the lighter 4.5 load as she is an old girl and there is no need to stress her. She will return to the safe again, but it is fun to shoot her.

I love it when a plan comes together!!! Congrats on developing additional loads that function well in your "old sweetie".