I am sure folks have wondered why we as moderators have not closed this.

In ref to Harry's usage of 'ponzi' / for Goodness sakes Harry, sometimes do a search of a term and learn how to back down a little???? Most of the discussion has been good, HOWEVER, unsure how a discussion of lugerman went from him to Ted then Danner. Oh okay, since I know most of the story, I do know.

There was a bit more background to this story, but it is not pertinent and thus I will leave it out.

I think the biggest thing to take away from here Harry is that you can learn how to EDIT your remarks after you make something a bit off and people won't be offended. Many times I will write something and then later correct the spelling or saying that someone is an idiot. It is in bad-form to say somethings publicly. Especially in a forum where people have known Ted since the inception of the forum 10 or 11 years ago.

Ron, I like Ted and he does excellent work, but he has gone through periods of being unreliable, but I will stand by his character of a trustworthy man and if he asks for money up-front, well that is his business practice and I don't blame him; I would imagine getting stuck once or twice with a bill can be very costly.

Ted will not respond here fella's, I have known him too long, I know he has read this, would be surprised if he has not, but it would surprise me for him to come on here and respond.

Leave the thread open or close it?

Ed

Very well said Ed .
Thanks Ed
George

Ah, there is the rub! Do you really get the same quality quicker? I would love to see a side by side comparison. I suspect that the old saying that you get what you pay for still applies. The devil is in the details. But, who knows?...you may be right.

Hey Ed, I said ponzi was a little over the top and it was, sorry. But this is what pisses me off. When someone comes here and asks where the best place to get a gun restored and you say Thor. You do these people a dis-service when you leave out a teenie weenie fact....the but and there is always a but, Thor may be the best, but it COULD take up to a year and it COULD cost you a thousand dollars. Now that person has all the information and can make an educated decision and not go in on blind faith, if he chooses to send the gun, at least he knows what to expect going in and not find out 6 months later. There is an old saying I like " I taught you everything you know, BUT I didn't teach you everything I know"
I'm through, no more posts on this subject from me, I made my point.

Exit stage left,
Harry

Hi Ron
I would be glad to find the worst gun I can and you find the
worst gun you can and I will pay Danner to restore your gun and you can pay Green to restore mine.We can then let the members on this
fourm make up thier minds on the best one.You and I could even make a side bet.
How does that sound.
Thanks George
P.S. Not a good idea after all I might die of old age before I get my gun back.
This is my last post.

Back while i was praticing law there was a dispute between 2 sister over a sily hummel. I knew the other lawyer and instead or ruining 2 days of trial in Miami we agreed with each other to go out and purchase an exaxt copy. They were $50 copies, We both gave our respective fighting client a copy and told them they were under court order not to ever discuss the outcome.They were thrilled! We both charged $250 and everybody was happy!

If you and the other attorney gave each of the sisters a copy - who had the original ?

They were both copies that was how easy it was to get a another.

If you send a Luger to a restoration artist, doesn't he have enough collateral from you in the fact that he has your Luger and would not have to return it until you paid him for his work.

Also, if he has your Luger in hand, why can't a price for all the agreed upon work be agreed to ahead of time ? Why does the work have to be 100% completed before the artist lets you know what the final-price might be.

It sounds like a contractor telling you a kitchen remodel will cost you $ 20,000...but he then tells you it will be $ 25,000 after the work is done for no reason caused by the homeowner.

I guess each fellow in this business can decide how he does the transaction, but the way Mr. Danner is reportedly doing his work seems the way I would choose if I needed a Luger redone.

Mr. Danner's work seems to be of excellent quality and his customer service seems to get high marks too.

(LugerMan's work is amatueristic if you have seen his stuff in person at gun shows.)

Ben, could you elaborate on this a bit, please? I've only seen his work in pics; on his site, in junglejim's thread, and in another thread whose author I've forgotten...never up close & personal...

Postino,

I have seen runs in the bluing (like paint runs) and he leaves sanding lines in the ear portions of the frame that should not be there.

How would you like your Broomhandle to come back to you with the "Mausfr" stamping...as it did in one other member's case.

For about the same money, Danner's work is superior and he makes his delivery promises, period.

Why get stressed out for over a year, send numerous emails with no replies or promises never kept, and start to get lawyers involved when there are other options.

Thor and LugerMan would just not be the guys I would use.

Wouldn't be nice to find someone like john Martz who performs work as original and new. I do not believe in luger plastic surgery. Nothing is going to be as good as new...

I contacted the Luger man once about restoration on a fat barrel and he didnt even reply to me till a year after I had the restoration done.

I used Ken Karstead for my restoration and he was fast and very reasonable. He was backed up the last time I spoke to him But I think he did a fantastic jon on my piece.

I think I've read his name here before...does he have a web site???

No Ken doesnt have a web site he doesnt even do email . He is an old skool gentleman. If anyone wants to contact him I will be glad to provide his phone number.

Collateral response
 

Hi,
Yes that is correct....
But gun in hand does not = money.
Time spend on restoration and no payment = loss of money.

and = delay for others that are willing to pay.

In this modern day with all the financial problems, some times i ask for a 20-30% deposit from new clients to cover my cost in case i do not see a payment after the job is done in case of restorations

In case of carbine conversions 50% down payment, simply pays for the donor gun and the parts that go on it... and cost of labor is covered at the time of delivery.

Never had to sell someone's gun, and hope will never have to.

Thanks.

Partial Mauser markings responce
 

Hi,

First of all.. i have never been to a single gun show... so i wonder if the example you have seen is a LugerMan.com work.

Second: I do not recall ever leaving 1/2 the mauser logo and not restoring it... and if you know the owner, let him know if that gun was ever in my shop for restoration and i did that, i will fix it for him free of charge.

3ed: same goes for any imperfections of the finish... I have never had a client that had a complaint about any of the work that was not taken back and fixed .. most were in the beginning of my career as a restore in 2002-2003.

Now days this type of problems get corrected before they ever see the light of day.

So please pass this to anyone owner of the restorations that i did ... i stand behind my restorations and any problems will get fixed for free, even for a 10 year old job.

Thanks.

Eugene -

I think this is the pic Ben M referred to...

http://forum.lugerforum.com/attachme...1&d=1249422960

It's from junglejim's thread -

http://forum.lugerforum.com/showthread.php?t=21822

Mauser stemp
 

Aha.. i see

This one was an actual Mauser made mistake... I did not have to do anything on this one, it was deep and clean just a bottom of the E broke on the stamp.

I did not feel i needed to correct history in this case.

But, this very picture was presented to the customer before shipping, like with all my restorations.

And all comments and changes were welcomed at that time...

If this w'd have been your gun and you'd want history corrected i w'd done it without second guessing it.

If i'd have to restore that stamp, it w'd have all the details correct on it.

Thanks.

Eugene:
Welcome, and good to hear you are still alive and kicking.
I just looked at the 1900 AE you did for me a couple of years ago. Very nice.
David Uden
Omaha

Seriously, what is the deal here. "Thor is best". Ok maybe that is true. Hey. Maybe he does do excellent or the best work. However that doesn't mean someone else can't be just as good or better. We are all human and we all have strengths and weaknesses. Also the thing with "you get what you pay for" is a bunch of crap. Yeah there are some areas where that applies well too. But there are others where you just have to scratch your head and ask why the hell does this cost so much (is it made out of solid gold). I'm sure the ones complaining about someone paying less money and getting a product just as good or better is really putting a bitter taste in there mouth. That is why they are bitching so much. For Pete's sake the guy just wanted to know of some good places to get his pistol restored. Who he picks shouldn't matter a dam bit to you.

I sent a check to Luger Man (Eugene G.) back in January for a number os small parts and all I have gotten in return is that the parts will be shipped etc. I have contacted the postal service and filed a conplaint.

When You find the best. Theres no room for the Rest! 'TED'

Not the first complaint we have seen here.

I think there was another post not long ago about not receieving a part but it did eventually come.

Hopefully it will end well with you also.

Seriously, what is the deal here. "Thor is best". Ok maybe that is true. Hey. Maybe he does do excellent or the best work. However that doesn't mean someone else can't be just as good or better. We are all human and we all have strengths and weaknesses. Also the thing with "you get what you pay for" is a bunch of crap. Yeah there are some areas where that applies well too. But there are others where you just have to scratch your head and ask why the hell does this cost so much (is it made out of solid gold). I'm sure the ones complaining about someone paying less money and getting a product just as good or better is really putting a bitter taste in there mouth. That is why they are bitching so much. For Pete's sake the guy just wanted to know of some good places to get his pistol restored. Who he picks shouldn't matter a dam bit to you.

Andrew..If you want to continue to post on this board you WILL stop the potty mouth. One strike is all your getting. A person who swears to reinforce his argument just shows his immaturity. It won't be tolerated. Please edit your post to remove the filth and apologize.

Jerry Burney-MODERATOR

I would like to add that I was told that if you send a gun to
Ted Green when he finished it he will only send it back to
your FFL dealer and you will have it reregsterd to you
at that extra cost to you.I have sent guns to gun smiths
that sent them back to me as they were my guns in the first place.Just to let you know that is what I have heard so you can check it out for your self.
Thanks George:order:

Hmmm, how exactly, can Ted be assured that it is your gun in the first place?

While I do understand this whole, "off the grid" mentality some people have. I support Ted in his desire to keep everything official and above board. What if, as an FFL, Ted receives a stolen gun report on some piece he just mailed back to a PO box, which is now closed and the perp has vanished? What does he do then? Keep it quiet?

"Ted Green when he finished it he will only send it back to
your FFL dealer and you will have it reregsterd to you"

If your concern here is being placed "on the grid" by the pistol being returned through an FFL, you are wasting your time. Ted, (and any other professional you choose to send your pistol out to) has to log your pistol into their books and by law, attach your name to it. If a BATF bulletin featuring your gun's serial number goes out, any FFL who has had it through their books is legally obligated to provide your information as having owned or posessed it on such and such a date.

Why not apply for a C&R FFL? $30 for three years, you just need 1 or 2 transactions to save that money back in three years.

Ted Green (THOR) is up front in his business practices... If he chooses to require that gun shipment take place to a FFL holder if the client does not have a C&R, that methodology while unusual, protects both him as a service provider, and the client.

While the law does allow a citizen to send his personal firearm to a FFL holder like Ted, and have it shipped back to the citizen who is not a FFL or C&R license holder, that does not offer liability protection for the business if the gun turns up missing or if the gun is stolen...

Firearm repair transactions are required to be documented by the FFL who handles the gun by the BATFE... You might fault Ted for slow service when things get stacked up, but you can't blame him for taking a strict stance on procedure when it comes to dealing with the BATFE... The service provider is the one who is subject to periodic inspection by the Feds, not the client.

If you don't like the rules he has established for doing business with him, then don't send your gun to Ted for refinishing... it's that simple.

I just thought I would let the fourm members know his rules
for doing business with him,as he does not post his rules anywhere
on his sight about this,and after you find out it is to late to
get it back,without haveing to go through this.I don't think
someone would send a stolen gun to have it fixed to a FFL
dealer knowing he has to report all his transactions to the
BATF.
Thanks George;)

It would be easy for a stolen gun to enter "normal" commerce. Scenario: A gun is stolen in a burglary and transported out of state. The gun is offered as a bargain in a private sale in a classified ad in a small town newspaper... and VIOLA! A regular citizen now OWNS a gun he believes is legally his. He uses the gun for a year or more and then trades it to another person for something he wants more... The new owner realizes the value of the gun and decides to keep it and have it restored so his grandchildren will enjoy it for decades to come... off it goes to a restoration service... and for the FIRST time, the serial number is recorded as required by law of the FFL holder. Then the FFL holder's records are routinely inspected by a BATFE agent who checks some random serial numbers... One gun comes up stolen in the inspection and the FFL holder's records indicate it was return-shipped to the owner of record at a PO box that when investigated is PO box that is no longer used.

An ounce of prevention is worth a pound of cure...

I have done business with Ted Green myself, and he made sure that I understood that if I didn't possess a valid C&R license that the gun would have to be returned through a FFL holder. Sometimes in our excitement to get something accomplished, we don't always remember everything we are told. I am not saying that is what happened to you, but Ted has been doing this for over a decade and I know his policies about shipment of the firearm have not changed.

HI,
Some parts that require custom work, take me longer to ship.
If i did not send it already, I will do so this weekend.

I ship parts orders on the weekends and can only prep and ship so meany in one weekend.

I have recently changed my Email footer to note the possible delay in shipping orders.

Thanks.

I live in Califonia and they no longer accept C &R license.
I have heard that if you have a gun restored you will lose some of it's value as a collectors peace,so it would not be a
good idea to have that done so your grandchildern will not
have a gun that would be worth as much as it would have been if you had not had that done.
Thanks George:cool:

After more than two months of waiting and numerous emails I finally received the parts that I ordered from Gene (aka Lugerman). The parts are in good condition but it should not have taken this long for parts that were in stock.

I'll tell a little story (without an ending)...Back on 02/27/12 I phoned in an order for a Redfield micrometer receiver sight to a well-known Texas sight dealer (doesn't have a web site or email)...He looked through his stock, found exactly the sight I wanted, reasonable price [$57], set it aside awaiting my money order, and told me it would be 4 - 6 weeks for delivery...Huh??? 4 - 6 weeks to pack it up and send it out??? :eek:

...It's been 6 weeks...I'm still waiting... :(

I know, use him from time to time.....he's old and slow, but we'er all getting that way

PLEASE READ THE REGULATIONS

It is perfectly legal for a NON licensed person to receive their OWN gun back to them, I quote ATF reg 5300-11

see pdf below if needed

so say I sold a gun and shipped to ffl and the person decided not to buy and didnt transfer the gun on their end the ffl could 2nd day air it to my door?

That is the way I read it

ATF 5300-4

[quote]§ 922 Unlawful acts.
(a) It shall be unlawful—
(1) for any person—
(A) except a licensed importer, licensed manufacturer, or licensed dealer, to engage in the business of
importing, manufacturing, or dealing in firearms, or in the course of such business to ship, transport, or receive
any firearm in interstate or foreign commerce; or
(B) except a licensed importer or licensed manufacturer, to engage in the business of importing or manufacturing
ammunition, or in the course of such business, to ship,
transport, or receive any ammunition in interstate or foreign commerce;
(2) for any importer, manufacturer, dealer, or collector licensed under the provisions of this chapter to ship or
transport in interstate or foreign commerce any firearm to any person other than a licensed importer, licensed
manufacturer, licensed dealer, or licensed collector, except that—
(A) this paragraph and subsection
(b)(3) shall not be held to preclude a licensed importer, licensed manufacturer, licensed dealer, or licensed collector from returning a firearm or replacement firearm of the same kind and type to a person from whom it
was received; and this paragraph shall not be held to preclude an individual from mailing a firearm owned
in compliance with Federal, State, and local law to a licensed importer, licensed manufacturer, licensed
dealer, or licensed collector;
(B) this paragraph shall not be
held to preclude a licensed importer, licensed manufacturer, or licensed dealer from depositing a firearm for
conveyance in the mails to any officer, employee, agent, or watchman who, pursuant to the provisions of
section 1715 of this title, is eligible to receive through the mails pistols, revolvers, and other firearms capable
of being concealed on the person, for use in connection with his official duty; and
(C) nothing in this paragraph shall be construed as applying in any manner in the District of Columbia, the
Commonwealth of Puerto Rico, or any possession of the United States differently than it would apply if the
District of Columbia, the Commonwealth of Puerto Rico, or the possession were in fact a State of the United
States;
(3) for any person other than a licensed importer, licensed manufacturer, licensed dealer, or licensed
collector to transport into or receive in the State where he resides (or if the person is a corporation or other business
entity, the State where it maintains a place of business) any firearm purchased or otherwise obtained by such
person outside that State, except that this paragraph (A) shall not preclude any person who lawfully acquires a
firearm by bequest or intestate succession in a State other than his State of residence from transporting the firearm
into or receiving it in that State, if it is lawful for such person to purchase or possess such firearm in that State, (B)
shall not apply to the transportation or receipt of a firearm obtained in conformity
with subsection (b)(3) of this section,
and (C) shall not apply to the transportation of any firearm acquired in any State prior to the effective date of
this chapter;

Not in the Republic of Calivornia.......must go from dealer to dealer......we are blessed that way...