I have alot of excitement and anxiety going on at the same time next step is to get the grips off to Hugh

Wayne;
I apologize for not following up with the name and contact information for the restorer I promised to send to you. It was Bill Adair and I found out that he had passed away. Looks like you found someone to do the work on your 1902 so good luck with it.
You may have seen the post I put up a couple of weeks ago about finding a 1902 Cartridge Counter gun that had been worked over extensively. I have been in contact with Gale Morgan about restoring this gun and it’s very expensive, but Gale won’t do a gun unless he does everything to bring it back to original. He told me that Parkerized guns were difficult to restore as the Parkerizing was a dip process and it was difficult to remove it from the interior of the gun. Gale wouldn’t do a gun unless he did the inside as well as the outside, but I don’t think that’s a high priority for everyone. I certainly wouldn’t worry about it in your case. He did say that the Parkerizing wasn’t very thick and could be removed from the exterior fairly easily. Post some pictures when you get it back!
Thanks,
Bob M.

One of the first things Ken said to me when I spoke with him was that "It might take longer than expected Because he had to go over every inch of the luger inside and out " So I know he also is prepping the inside of the pistol. I hope everything comes out well .

Bob also congrats on the CC . I cant wait to see the finished result.

Wayne

Wayne, what approx does Ken charge for this? I would expect fairly expensive for a complete work over?


Ed

Ed I am not exactly sure what the final tally will be but I dont think it will be as steep as I expected it to be,

Regards
Wayne

we sure would like some "after" photos

Jim

OKay , Update I spoke with Ken today.
All the parkerizing is removed , The side plate is done the barrel is ready for bluing. The toggle is ready for bluing Grip safety is done. Basically he said the pistol is beautiful he has to finish prepping the inside of the pistol, The Eagle and Bug proofs on the toggle and slide rails are 100% , The Bug proofs on the barrel are still visible but shallow, (which they were already shallow and the calibre markings on the barrel are shallow,) I should have it back next week or the week after.

With respect to the barrel BUG proofs, even on untouched original specimens the proofs are very shallow. I have a near mint '02 and FGS (Doug Smith) had one in the same condition a little over a year ago and the depth of the barrel proofs were almost identically shallow. For some reason DWM applied them with a light hand.
Really looking forward to the finished result photos.

Ron I did my research and all photos of the originals seemed to be shallow to me also. How about the other barrel marking relating to the calibre Are these also shallow. Ken said that they are barely visible and i know from my inspection of the weapon before i sent it to Ken that these marks were barely visiblt with the naked eye.

I cant wait to see this either I asked Ken if he could email me some photos but he let me know that he is not computer savvy nor does he own a digital camera.

The next step once I get it back will be to send the grips to Hugh and to have something done about my broken Cal 9m/m wood bottom Magazine.

Wayne

Spoke with Ken today , I will have it back next week He told me that his initial price would be a bit more because he spent more time getting the inside done correctly This is good news that he spent the time doing inside and out properly I cant wait to get it back,

GT can hook you up on the wood bottom repair / replacement.

Can't wait to see the restore work on this one.

Yeah after I get the pistola back i will have the grips and wood bottom on the magazine redone. I am crossing my fingers that the restoration meets everyones approval. Ken seems confident that I will be extremely happy he say it looks like it is new in the box.

Wayne, here is my pre-approval :) Waiting your pictures.

OKAY THE BIG DAY HAS ARRIVED. I am very pleased with the way it turned out. I do have an issue with the toggle latch I believe this is supposed to be strawed and not blued but I think that shout not be a big issue to get fixed. I will take better quality photos when I have some more time but this is at least enough to give you guys a taste

more pics

more

more

What a wonderful transformation. Another treasure brought back to life. If ever there was a justified case for restoration, this is a prime example. I am very pleased that you have had the gun restored. Congratulations.
P.S. you are correct that the toggle latch should be strawed, and it is a very minor thing to have fixed.

Ron does it get a thumbs up from you?

Certainly! Once you get the grips, mag bottom and toggle latch done you will have a "new" fat barrel. With so few having been produced, survivng examples are a real collector's dream.

Wayne -- How much it cost to do this, if not a secret?

Wayne;

It looks great! I am interested in the getting in contact with your restorer, I have already sent the Cartridge Counter to Gale Morgan but I have another 1900 test eagle that I would like to get restored. If you can forward me his contact information on a private message I would appreciate it.

Thanks,
Bob M.

Thanks so much for posting the photos.

I agree with Ron a prime restore.

Another piece of history saved.

Okay I am kind of uncomfortable with giving a price But in this case I would like to tell you guys so you can see how reasonable Ken is. He charged me $565.00 to do my pistol. That is unbelievable. And he offered me a 15 dollar discount to pay with cash.

Ken Karstead
41 Linden Ave,
Lake Forest Illinois 60045
847-234-0441

Ken did my pistol for a more than reasonable price and he did it in a reasonable time. But I do know that he has about 5 lugers to be done so the wait may be a bit longer than mine was.

Talk about return on investment! You now have a piece that is easily worth more than ten times what you have in it. Wow! Could you please buy a couple of lottery tickets for me?:) Anyone with that kind of good fortune has got to be a lightning rod for more good stuff.

Thanks Wayne for the info. The restoration charge is much lower than I expected!!

I visited book store today and The Official Gun Digest Book of Guns & Prices 2009 (the best gun price guide IMHO) says only a few hundred fat barrels were made, excellent fat barrel goes $12K. There is even smaller variation called "Cartidge Counter", only 50 were made.

I believe about 600 of the AE Fat barrels were made. Please someone correct me if I am wrong. Does anyone have any idea how many still survive?

Wayne
Beautiful restoration of your 1902 AE, sn 23100, at a bargain price.

When Imperial Lugers was published, over 20 years ago,
it was estimated that 860 1902 AE were manufactured. This estimate was based on analysis of 84 reported serial numbers (page 11).
Jan

Mr Still, Is there any estimate on how many survived?

As I said on the other forum. it was an outstanding work done by Ken. Hats off to him!
The minor issues reported can easily be fixed. The worst part is over and now you have a rare Luger to display.

Thanks for showing the "before and after" process.

Douglas

What is the process referred to as 'parkerzed' Ive never heard of it? In any event this looks like a job for Dr Ted! Eric

Eric,

Here you go, courtesy of Wkipedia:

Parkerizing, bonderizing, phosphating, or phosphatizing is a method of protecting a steel surface from corrosion and increasing its resistance to wear through the application of an electrochemical phosphate conversion coating. Parkerizing is usually considered to be an improved zinc or manganese phosphating process, and not to be an improved iron phosphating process, although some use the term parkerizing as a generic term for applying phosphating (or phosphatizing) coatings that does include the iron phosphating process.

Parkerizing is commonly used on firearms as a more effective alternative to bluing, which is another electrochemical conversion coating that was developed earlier. It's also used extensively on automobiles to protect unfinished metal parts from corrosion.

Hope this helps,

John

Thanks John, a GREAT explanation!

"bluing, which is another electrochemical conversion coating". Do you mean at the molecular level? Because all the bluing I have ever seen or done is just dunking the part into a boiling solution with certain chemical salts in it. No electricity is applied like is done with say nickel plating.

There are also other bluing methods like rust bluing which is a controled rusting process and carbonia bluing which is done solely with heat. Again, no electriciy. Not trying to be picky here! Just to clarify.

If only I could find a ratty Catridge Counter!! You deserve it for sharing it, Eric Esq

Wow, this thread is great. I always cringe at ruined guns even the bubba's $79 Mosin nagant in a plastic stock.

What was salvaged with that restoration is indeed a joyous moment to counteract all those thousands of bubba guns out there.

A little Legal. Do he have a duty to inform a perspective purchaser of all it went through? Lets see who gets this one right, Villanova Law 1981!

Unlike an automobile or home, I don't believe there are any legal disclosure statutes surrounding collector guns, unless you represent the piece as something that it is not, which might constitute fraud.
This is why so many internet sellers throw in the obligatory "I don't know anything about this item" CYA rhetoric, basically stating; "you decide if it is real or authentic".

This is why we all look for three day inspections, authentication by experts in your high dollar items and money back guarrantys.
It is certainly morally reprehensible to misrepresent anything you are attempting to profit from.

I agree the system helps those who are honest. Where would we be without our luger family. Allot of times its a mere miscommunication by either party. Every gun I own was purchased from our lil family! A++++ 8 years I have become very knowlegable. Luvya all!

When I first seen this. I was just about to chime in and say, yes it can be saved. Ive done parkerizing and Bluing. I also have saved a few lugers,that would have been written off by many. park can be be removed easily with naval jelly,or other types of acids. all bluing proccess' are actually forms of rust. Nickle plating is a different story.

I personally think its by far the best route,to restore lugers when they have issues and this case its a shining example of why its worth doing!

Congrats to the O P.