Hi Steiner,
Is the ATF your using in this test the brand name, or does it just stand for (automatic transmission fluid)? I would imagine that you would get different results from different brands.
Mike C.

Hi.
As I was the one sending the ATF fluid in, I will answer that question. ;)

This is Valvoline ATF type D. (don't know where the 'D' stands for)

I also have here at my home ATF fluid from a cheaper (European) brand but because I think it's not available everywhere I didn't send it in for the test.:cool:
Maybe I'll compare the two of them in the near future; you're probably right that different brands will give different results.

Peet.

Day 4 (+6 hours) ..some are still holding up!

http://forum.lugerforum.com/lfupload/img_5948.jpg

It looks like picking the winners and losers is not going to be tough!

yes, it's surprises me that Mobil1 and ATF are still holding out! Actually, I was expecting the more greasy stuff to hold out the longest..

My wife thinks I'm crazy spending time on this, and she is probably right;) Still, I will take it a step further when I get back from Indonesia 26 mars, and do an outdoor pipe test. Think that would make more realistic conditions. Perhaps two pipes, and let one be exposed for some wear..

-Hope it is useful for you guys, that I'm not just spamming down the 'Repairs, Restoration & Refinishing'â??section, if so I have to heart to handle the criticism;) My plan is to post a picture everyday until the 16th, and then compose pictures over the development.

http://forum.lugerforum.com/lfupload/img_5987.jpg

Steinar
This is not spam in any way. There is not a one of us that has been dealing with guns for any lenght of time that has not had or seen a gun covered with rust. I will use this information not only on my guns but on the stuff I keep in the weather. Let me thank you again for the fine and hard work!
Craig

Steinar,

This is a worthwhile test. I am surprised at some of the results. I didn't expect the WD-40, Mobil 1 and Breakfree LP to hold up nearly as well as they did. As you know I expected the "Bear fat" #12 to hold up the best since I was told it has the same main ingredients as Cosmolene, But from the photos I expect that to be the next one to rust since it is starting to change color on the bottom right side.

In addition to the pipe test, you may want to do a repeatability test that is identical to the test you are now conducting to see if the end results are still the same.

Chris

Steinar,
I think that is an excellent idea. All true science is reproduceable.

:) Here is todays picture;

http://forum.lugerforum.com/lfupload/img_6085_copy2.jpg

I now also have Kroil, two types of X-tend (a new norwegian brand) and three types of various military oil. These will also be included on the next test later on. Have a nice day!

I'm feeling self-righteous already.
I've used WD-40 since the early 60's. Lately, popular wisdom has been that you should never use WD-40 on your guns.
I'm glad I ignored them.

with good reason! I have heard the same.. But as long as it also lubricates well, I don't see any reason to stay away from it..

Steinar,
I for one am very grateful that you are going to the trouble to do these tests. I'm sure everyone else here feels the same.

Let me be the first to officially dub these the "Steinar Tests".

Now all we have to do is think up a really neat myth to spread about the "Steinar Tests" that everyone can argue about for years and never prove or disprove. Maybe "Steinar Oil". A few of us could claim to have a secret supply of it purchased from you, while you steadfastly deny it exists.

Thanks for the kind words:)
..the only fluids I mix together myself is the cherry wine i make every summer and the doze of moonshine every three year or so.. the moonshine gives 96% of pure headache, but is a great mix with coffee! A rather simple "drink" that is called 'karsk' where I come from, if used on metal, it would probably dissolve it like acid;)


http://forum.lugerforum.com/lfupload/img_0451.jpg

Steinar,
Thanks for the test

David,
The one negative thing (I heard) about WD-40 on guns is that it thickens after time, so it might not be as good a lubricant as it is a preservative. Since you have used it for such a long time, have you ever noticed this? You probably clean and oil your guns too often to notice if it's true or not.
Mike C.

MFC,

Haven't noticed anything like that in 40 years.

1. Could be true, but not meaningful because guns should be cleaned/oiled more frequently. Oils protect for only a limited time.

2. Thickening is probably part of the same myth about not being good for guns in the first place.

BTW,
I read this about WD-40 somewhere, can't remember where now.
WD= Water Displacement
40= formula #40
Main ingredient is fish oil.

Mike C.

Hi,

Recently had a conversation with a person from the Dutch army about WD40-useage. His explanation was that WD40 worked too good and could cause quicker wear of the bore, as the normal gun oils and dirt tend to fill up microscopic defects in the bore, thus reducing wear and tension on these defects. WD40 cleans out these defects, with the result that the discharge of a round hits the defects harder and longer, leading to faster wear.

If there is any truth to this story, using WD40 on the gun outside wouldn't be a problem, just don't use it to clean out the bore when you intend to shoot the hell out of it. Something that isn't pretty important for collector grade guns.

Fish oil. Hmm. Makes sense, those critters displace water pretty well :)

WD40 is pretty great stuff; I too have been using it for years.
It will gum up an action if used improperly; this is mostly in the way we use it. For example: Using it as a preservative and applying new WD40 over old layers of WD40 repeatedly will create grease that will be so thick that parts stop functioning especially in cold weather. The great thing about WD40 is that in its spray can formula it can be used to clean away the old buildup. The other thing is that it does attract powder residue more than many oils especially true of 22 cal guns that tend to be shot hundreds of times each session. Again under pressure WD40 acts as a mild solvent and will clean most of this away.
One thing everyone who uses WD40 should know is that this is a penetrant, and if left in your bore or on the face of your breechblock can cause your bullets to go dead or cause a partial detonation and barrel obstruction from a lodged bullet. (this doesnâ??t happen quickly) for example a gun that sits in the night stand for months might fail at the very moment you need it most.

WD40 is a great multipurpose product but just like every other multipurpose product has to be used properly.


Story Time:

A good friend of mine asked if he could bring his revolver in to be repaired. I told him very clearly that loaded guns were not allowed in the shop and to make sure this was the case before bringing it in for repair.
On the day he entered the shop, I greeted him and he lifted his gun from its case, I again asked, is it unloaded? To my shock and unbelief he said donâ??t worry its unloaded and pointed it at me and pulled the trigger three times then said â??seeâ?�. I said (sh--!) donâ??t do that, he laughed and again saying its not loaded pointed it at the concrete floor and pulled the trigger several more times. Some rather harsh words followed, not proper for this forum.

Upon inspecting the gun I found it fully loaded, the firing pin was stuck solid because he had used WD40 improperly for several years. Always applying it after shooting to prevent rust but never using it as a cleaner/solvent---trust me WD40 can gum up your action!

And save youre life.... :rolleyes:

Suppose he isn't your friend anymore??:mad:

Peet.

Jeez..
that this guy couldnâ??t have had any training or information about weapon safety whatsoever, or the fog was/is very dense in his upper region!
Would hate to hear that one of the forum members got shot like that.

Perhaps it's a reaction similar to those who answer "yeah.. it's my bomb", when some sort of authority figure at the airport asks what's in the luggage. Adrenaline can cause some very irrational behavior for some people..

I guess that I could have forgiven a friend for something like that, but he would have had a hard time opening his welded revolver when he got it back!


Back when I was working in the military, I remember a 'practical joke' where FW40 was sprayed on the cap of the 9mm rounds, to 'deactivate them. It worked quite instantly and most of the rounds didn't go off. Heard that the same goes for regular oils also, but never tried.. (perhaps someone feels tempted to do a test? ..donâ??t look at me;) ) So avoiding this stuff on the breechblock sounds like a wise thing to do.

We are still friends, this man is a veteran of the Gulf War and so it had nothing to do with training. In his mind the gun was empty because it wouldnâ??t shoot. He suffered from SLOG (sudden loss of judgment)

I believe its how we train people about guns that is the problem, not so long ago most people lived on or near farms or at least had relatives that did and had a much better understanding of what a bullet can do. We knew that the cowboy shows on TV and the war pictures werenâ??t quite accurate.

We have lost this connection.

My method to teach new shooters is to take a couple of watermelons to the range and to show them the damage inside done by a bulletâ??even a 22 long rifle. They can relate to the redness of the melon and to what happens to a human when shot without loosing their lunch, something that happens when you show them real pictures. You can show them the wound channel and talk about how guns kill. I have never had anyone loose control of barrel direction after using this methodâ??it sticks with them.

Sorry for derailing the test, it was the best example on WD40 I could think of.

FYI
I just can not make myself go hunting with him any longer.

Back on subject: The ATF your using is petroleum based as are many but some are synthetic or a mix of both, results could be very much different with other brands.
Mobil 1 is my big surprise; I thought for sure you would be seeing something by now!

Oh I looked up the MSDS on your ATF fluid itâ??s no worse than WD40 same toxicity level. Some ATF fluids are really bad so be careful and take the time to look up the hazards of what youâ??re using. Easily done with the internet, many schools have them posted on their networks for ready review.

Here is the last picture before a work related week trip to Indonesia.. Not much has happened in the last couple of days.. will come with an update on how they are doing when I get back moday 26th :)


http://forum.lugerforum.com/lfupload/img_6117_copy1.jpg :cheers:

I'm now back from a Jakarta Indonesia. For those interested in how things are going after the flooding one month ago, for me things seemed mostly to be back to normal. Though there is a large contrast between rich and poor.. help is still needed.

Anyway, here is how they looked when I got back yesterday. After 18 days.
http://forum.lugerforum.com/lfupload/img_6147.jpg

Steinar, thank you for a very valuable and instructive endeavor. It has caused me to rethink my gun care regimen and to discard some products I have used for years. Well done.

Days have come and days have gone.. This is a final update on the results!

http://forum.lugerforum.com/lfupload/img_6392.jpg

http://forum.lugerforum.com/lfupload/img_7511.jpg

Even after 36 days, it was still hard to seperate "a winner". ..so I did a little shake to speed things up.

http://forum.lugerforum.com/lfupload/img_7634.jpg



Stubborn as I am, I don't stop there.. ;)

http://forum.lugerforum.com/lfupload/img_7643.jpg
Will come with an update later on, when I find the time.. Have a nice weekend!

It's a rainy day outside my Oslo appartment, so the brave test subjects got a tough start;)

http://forum.lugerforum.com/lfupload/img_7650.jpg

..ever wondered what those boxes outside the porch is for? Well.. I think I found the answer
http://forum.lugerforum.com/lfupload/img_7647.jpg


1. Aeroshell 2F
2. WD-40
3. Mobil 1
4. Aluma Guard
5. Rem oil
6. Hoppies oil
7. Militec 1
8. Break Free LP
9. Brownells Steinless Slick
10. RIG +P Steinless stell
11. Lihium grease
12. Black Bear PAR-AL-Ketone
(thanks Chris!)
13. Swiss grase oil
14. Dutch oil
(thanks G. van. Vlimmeren!)
15. ATF Fluid
16. FP10
(thanks 76Vette!)
17. Eezok bottle
18. Eezok spray
19. Kroil
20. X-Tend No.1
21. X-Tend No.2
22. Norwegian Army oil
..and the more creative stuff..
23. Soya oil
24. 'Real Mink oil' - Shoe wax made by Boston
25. Ski wax ..who knows? ;)
26. Sewing machine oil
27. Without oil

Thanks to all who has contributed! I appreciate it! :)
My plan was to add some more gun oils wich I havein Leksvik, but work is keeping me in Oslo until mid summer.

After a rainy night, rust is starting to show
http://forum.lugerforum.com/lfupload/img_7652.jpg

..it's quite impressive that #4 'Aluma Guard' and #6 'Hoppies oil' actually makes the sample area rust faster than #27 wich is without any, just as they did on the first test..
http://forum.lugerforum.com/lfupload/img_7656.jpg

After another day, with a combination of snow and rain.. this is how they are doing;

http://forum.lugerforum.com/lfupload/img_7687_2.jpg

If I should try to range them from bad->good, it would be something like this; #4, #6, #27, #19, #26, #25, #21, #7, #1, #20, #13.

The rest, is still going strong

*update*
..third day in a row with rain..
http://forum.lugerforum.com/lfupload/img_7696.jpg

The last 24 hours has not been kind to the samples!
Some has gone from almost no rust to all rusted within just 24h..


It has been a foggy day.. and this is how they look now;

http://forum.lugerforum.com/lfupload/img_7711.jpg

Interesting results. Faith in my trusty gun oil is somewhat restored :)

Yes, the results are quite different! ..Think this test is a little more relevant, think (and hope) that you guys are not storing away your luger in salty water;)
I will be away on a work trip until the middle of next week, so there will be no update until then. Take care and have a nice weekend :cheers:


*new update 3th May*
http://forum.lugerforum.com/lfupload/img_7822.jpg

*taken 13th May*
http://forum.lugerforum.com/lfupload/img_7924.jpg

From good to worse; 12, 24, 13, 22, 9, 10, 11, 23 and14 ..the rest is hard to seperate..


*info added 17 october; I will be in Switzerland and Italy next week, but when I get back, I will try to photoshop pictures together to make the results more viewable.