LugerForum Discussion Forums - Perfect Luger ammo

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- - Perfect Luger ammo (https://forum.lugerforum.com/showthread.php?t=9331)

Lonnie Zimmerman

10-20-2003 06:28 PM

Sieger; plesae post it here for ALL to see?
Lonnie

Dean	10-20-2003 11:04 PM

I don't think you can reproduce it exactly. I think you can get close with modern powders, but not perfect.

The good news it that if you reload, you can probably do better than original. Of course that has always been the case.

Sieger

10-21-2003 03:25 PM

<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by Lonnie Zimmerman:
Sieger; plesae post it here for ALL to see?
Lonnie<hr /></blockquote>Dear Lonnie:

I'll tell you what, I'm going to Florida, shortly, where I have excellent range facilities. There, I am planning some real range work with 5 new powders and some new bullet types, as well as, some additional work on some of my old faithful combinations developed over the last 25 years.

As my service to humanity for 2003, I'll write a short article explaining all of the secrets I've learned from the German texts, as well as, my 25 years of load development work and either post it here, or make it available by e-mail.

After reading this article and doing just a little of your own experimentation, I guarantee you that you will not know that you are shooting the same pistol.

Sieger

Thor	10-21-2003 04:43 PM

Roadkill, glad to hear you are enjoying your Luger I rehabed for you!

Lonnie Zimmerman

10-21-2003 09:08 PM

Sieger; thanks for sharing!! I have done a lot of reloading for the Luger and have come up with 6gr of Unique as the BEST load. No Jams, etc. Look foreward to seeing your research.
Lonnie

Thor	10-21-2003 09:37 PM

8 grs of Blue Dot, with a 124 gr FMJ, in the Artillery Luger (with standard, not weakened mainspring) is super. Some folks will weaken the mainspring to function with a lighter load, but I favor the Blue Dot load with a normal strength mainspring. Ejection is brisk but not overly so. Booms like a rifle. I also favor Unique powder in the 4" Barrel Lugers but I like Blue dot for the longer Artillery!

Sieger

10-22-2003 12:03 AM

<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by Thor:
8 grs of Blue Dot, with a 124 gr FMJ, in the Artillery Luger (with standard, not weakened mainspring) is super. Some folks will weaken the mainspring to function with a lighter load, but I favor the Blue Dot load with a normal strength mainspring. Ejection is brisk but not overly so. Booms like a rifle. I also favor Unique powder in the 4" Barrel Lugers but I like Blue dot for the longer Artillery!<hr /></blockquote>Dear Thor:

I don't know this for a fact, but it makes good common sense to me, that the LP-08s came with lighter main springs. The Germans didn't issue a special load for the LP-08, they shot regular issue ammo in them. Their regular powder had a burning rate very similar to SR 4756, a rather slow powder, compared to many, that probably worked quite well in those 200mm barrels.

Just a point of interest, how is your accuracy with the Blue Dot load out of a LP-08?

Sieger

Sieger

10-22-2003 12:14 AM

<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by Lonnie Zimmerman:
Sieger; thanks for sharing!! I have done a lot of reloading for the Luger and have come up with 6gr of Unique as the BEST load. No Jams, etc. Look forward to seeing your research.
Lonnie<hr /></blockquote>Dear Lonnie:

Are you shooting the 6.0gr Unique load out of a late war Mauser or an earlier DWM model?, Have you changed the mainspring or otherwise modified the pistol in any way? How accurate is the load at, say, 25 yards? Also, what bullet are you using with this load, specifically?

Sieger

Thor	10-22-2003 01:19 AM

Looking over my targets, it seems that accuracy was better with Unique than Blue Dot. Looking over Harry Jones chart on main spring, I really dont see any major difference in main spring strengths. I think the load was just hot enough to be able to function both pistols, I would GUESS that the 4" got hammered a little more from recoil. Looking over powder burning charts your SR 4756 would be about 1/2 way between Unique and Blue dot so it seems like it would be a good powder for the 9mm. Here is one of the better targets.
<a href="http://members.rennlist.com/lugerman/DLTarget.jpg" target="_fullview"><img src="http://members.rennlist.com/lugerman/DLTarget.jpg" width="400" alt="Click for fullsize image" /></a>

Sieger

10-22-2003 02:09 AM

<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by Thor:
Looking over my targets, it seems that accuracy was better with Unique than Blue Dot. Looking over Harry Jones chart on main spring, I really dont see any major difference in main spring strengths. I think the load was just hot enough to be able to function both pistols, I would GUESS that the 4" got hammered a little more from recoil. Looking over powder burning charts your SR 4756 would be about 1/2 way between Unique and Blue dot so it seems like it would be a good powder for the 9mm. Here is one of the better targets.
<a href="http://members.rennlist.com/lugerman/DLTarget.jpg" target="_fullview"><img src="http://members.rennlist.com/lugerman/DLTarget.jpg" width="400" alt="Click for fullsize image" /></a><hr /></blockquote>Dear Thor:

Thank you!! As always, you are a source of much needed practical information. Well, the proof is in the target. I have never been one to argue with success. Was this target shot with or without the stock attached?

Sieger

ratdog

10-22-2003 05:42 AM

Geez!!!!!!!! Walmart has great 9mm for 11.50$/box 100. Oh yeah, and it works.............

Thor	10-22-2003 09:00 AM

Sieger, that was without the stock, but in one of my better days. That was with Unique powder. That doesnt mean that with another powder it would have shot even better. I think in a lot of cases we are shooting a milder than original spec load and if that Artillery has a brand new Wolff spring it usually is a bit slugish. I would like to see the load that Roadkill is talking about chronographed to check velocities. Hugh has done quite a bit of chrony work with different modern powders.

Doubs

10-22-2003 12:40 PM

Wolff Springs offers a three-pack of springs for the Luger: 36# light; 38# standard & 40# heavy. I believe it comes with a new 10% stronger firing pin spring included as well. I haven't purchased a set in awhile so I'm not really up on prices but Brownell's sells them and I would imagine that TH (Lugerdoc) also has them.

Roadkill

10-22-2003 01:05 PM

Thor, what was the bullet weight with the 6grs of Unique? And the gun is great. Need to provide instructions with your restorations on removing drool stains though.

rk

Thor	10-22-2003 01:53 PM

Vielen Dank Herr RK! My normal loadings are
#1 Mild-5.2 grs UNIQUE with 124 gr bullet #2 Medium-5.7 grs UNIQUE with 124 gr bullet and #3 heavy is 8.0 grs of BLUE DOT with the 124 gr. With any Luger I would try #1 and check locking back of toggle and ejection, then if more is needed try #2, if ejection is still light go then to #3. PERSONALLY I would not shoot over 6.0 grs of Unique in a Luger with either the 115 or 124 gr bullet. I DONT ENDORSE ANYBODY ELSE USING MY LISTED LOADINGs (and a lot of other legal mumbo jumbo)

Barry Briscoe

10-22-2003 02:02 PM

Thor,
I chronographed some Lapua VPT 58 out of my Glock 17L with 6" first generation slotted port barrel a few years ago.IIRC it averaged around 1275 fps.The ammo shoots well,berdan primers and bullet are lacquer sealed and the bullet is a lead core with a mild steel jacket.I believe the bullet weight is 123gr.

Lonnie Zimmerman

10-22-2003 11:03 PM

Sieger; I have an LP 08 that I modified the area where the rear sight was to accept the doctersight from Germany, and it shoots about 1/1/4' at 25 yards with the Winchester 115 gr JHP. I can"t send pictures but Rick Wagner has some of my targets and I have shot with Dwight Gruber. My recoil spring is whatever came with a 1917 Artillery model. Also concerning the Finnish Ammo, I have some VPT 44 ammo, and wrote to them concerning the round and they stated they use the same load today as they did in 1944 and it is 4.3 gr of (I forgot) at 1045 fps.Lonnie

Sieger

10-23-2003 01:58 AM

<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by Lonnie Zimmerman:
Sieger; I have an LP 08 that I modified the area where the rear sight was to accept the doctersight from Germany, and it shoots about 1/1/4' at 25 yards with the Winchester 115 gr JHP. I can"t send pictures but Rick Wagner has some of my targets and I have shot with Dwight Gruber. My recoil spring is whatever came with a 1917 Artillery model. Also concerning the Finnish Ammo, I have some VPT 44 ammo, and wrote to them concerning the round and they stated they use the same load today as they did in 1944 and it is 4.3 gr of (I forgot) at 1045 fps.Lonnie<hr /></blockquote>Lonnie:

You are a lucky dog to have an LP-08 shooter. Please tell me what a doctorsite is.

You have confirmed what I felt would be the specs. of that Finnish ammo, as this vel. falls squarely in the 1020 to 1076fps. range that I have in all of my original texts(123gr. bullet).

I shot some of this ammo in a P-38 in the early 70s and remember that the powder burned so cleanly, that the cases looked as if they had not even been fired. My cases were all brass and were berdan primed, naturally.

Sieger

Sieger

10-23-2003 02:15 AM

<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by ratdog:
Geez!!!!!!!! Walmart has great 9mm for 11.50$/box 100. Oh yeah, and it works.............<hr /></blockquote>This is a suprise to me, as the factory stuff is loaded too short for proper step-feeding in the Luger. Velocity is probably ok, if its the Remington stuff though.

Sieger

Sieger

10-23-2003 02:39 AM

Gentlemen:

Has anyone out there in Luger land ever clocked an original 123gr. German Military or Civilian 9mm Parabellum round (manufactured before 1946) at any velocity in excess of 1076 fps. from a standard 100 mm (4 Inch) barreled Luger?

A lot of folks (even some authors) claim that there was such a round developed for the new model (coil spring) Luger.

Well, let's see if anyone has ever found and shot one.

If such a round was ever produced, it hasn't been mentioned in any of the period German or English texts I have read to date.

Sieger

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