Re: And Again
 

excellent piece of information. Does this document exist anywhere we could scan it and add it to our technical section for future reference. Thank you Patrick, for this valuable input!

Re: And Again - food for thought
 

Gentlemen let me throw in the monkey wrench! Patricks point is valid, however, kept in mind that German orders do not necessarily ALWAYS get followed. variations are possible. We must keep an open mind on this.


Factual documentation is a sound basis for judgement. Experience in dealing with articles and research records may contradict the original documentation.


I would be inclined to say that this issue in not completely proven. That being said I agree that error on the side of physical proof is always advised until proven otherwise.


Regards to all;

But Erfurt and DWM had different Interpretations
 

Both manufacturers were suppose to be controlled by the same Orders and Erfurt marked more parts and differently than DWM. It would be nice to find a reference for a specific manufacturer. From what I can tell, none were terrible consistent in the control of changes. Or maybe it just seems that way. Germans were noted for their adherence to detail. If so, why would they mark the vast majority of the pins and not all of them? I don't know that answer.

Re: And Again - food for thought
 

The discussion was whether the link pins were numbered or not, not whether they were a variation. Again, are we to take an opinion over valid documentatin? If there is documentation to the contrary, this is the time to bring it to the forum.

Re: And Again
 

FWIW I just got through looking at 25 DWM and MAUSER

manufacture ranging in condition from well worn to 98% plus.

I had never really noticed this before or paid close attention to, but all the DWM's connecting pins are UN-NUMBERED whereas all the MAUSER pins are NUMBERED. Of these,one is a 1918 DWM rework by Simson and the pin is un-numbered; another is a Sneak numbered in both the commercial and military style and the pin is numbered.


When it comes down to it, I believe that the "rules" were not always adhered to(gripstrap markings are another example of this).


Just my own opinion, offere entirely for what it is worth.


Steve M.

Again & Again
 

You�´re right- all of you. So I went back to my books.Here�´s the answer why some rear toggle pins are numbered - and some are not: a Heeres-Verordnungsblatt (Army Order Form) dated 2nd August 1931 states that changes were to be made to all issued P 08s to prevent the rear toggle pin from moving out and blocking the receiver. A second Order dated 17th March 1932 stated that the rear toggle pin was to be numbered from then on to prevent old toggle pins being used with Lugers that had been adapted. So (according to G�¶rtz), if a toggle pin is numbered on a P08 made before 1932, it proves that the pistol was still owned by the state at that time and had been retro-number stamped. If the rear toggle pin is NOT numbered on Lugers made before 1932, the pistol had either been â??privatisedâ?� or was a commercial model. All state owned Lugers issued after 1932 should have numbered rear toggle pins. So a pre 1932 Luger could be "fully numbered" WITHOUT a number on the rear pin but would have a number on the pin if it was still state owned at that time. This would also explain why the toggle pin number often is of a different size and design. Patrick

Hurray, Hurray - Thanks Patrick !!
 

Thanks for your persistence. I am glad you stuck with that research. My appreciation !!!

Thank you Patrick...
 

Now it all makes sense! I for one can now see the light!

Patrick, please illucidate as to where you found the information. What publication was it in, author, publisher, date, etc. I for one am interested.


Regards to all;

Re: Rear Conncecting Pin - Again
 

Ahm jes happy wen all ma Loogers hav got togel pens!

Hugh, we can always count on U (EOM)
 

Ahd be heppy jest to have Loogar...
 

Teedoor won't give mine back!!!!!

Re: DOK--Advise!
 

DOK;


You should always treat your Luger as you would your wife!

Never lend it out or you might not get it back! Ha Ha

POOR DOK !!
 

Don't forget he has one of mine up for ransom too!! BTW I think it's Luggar, not Loogar. Now this is from that reknown collector RES !!! Least that's what he tol me at dinner.

Re: I take your point...
 

Dok,

No thanks needed. You did very well by yourself.

Re: And Again
 

Patrick,


Thanks for your diligent research on this subject. Now we know the "official" German staement on the numbering of the pin.


Marvin

Re: And Again
 

Grip strap markings were field applied and did not always follow regulations, but you can bet that if they had been factory applied that they would be uniform.

Touch�© ! (EOM)
 

So I shouldn't become...
 

wunna them thar swingers... ROFL

Wahl whaddy I knooo...
 

I cain't spel nohow....

Re: And Again
 

I'll agree to that.