Hi Bob,
thanks for the reply. I�´m not an expert in ammo, so I�´m not able to verify the figures given in the table. Maybe somebody more experienced can provide detailed info.
Yes, I try to bring back the accuracy to the gun by testing different 9mm ammo. Hope soon I will be able to hit the bulls eye.
regards
Peter

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Arial,Helvetica,Geneva">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Arial,Helvetica,Geneva">Originally posted by Ron Wood:
<strong>"Land hunters" is the Babel Fish literal translation of "Landj�¤gern", which I believe is what the rural constabulary was called.</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Arial,Helvetica,Geneva">Ron
again you are right.
The rural constabulary was called Landj�¤ger from 1919 till 1934 when they became part of Himmlers police troops.
regards
Peter

To all english-speaking members:

I am again wondering about the good German, some people can speak here!! Gongrats, I would wish my English would be as half as good!!

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Arial,Helvetica,Geneva">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Arial,Helvetica,Geneva">Originally posted by H.P.Langenbach:
<strong>Hi Bob,
thanks for the reply. I�´m not an expert in ammo, so I�´m not able to verify the figures given in the table. Maybe somebody more experienced can provide detailed info.
Yes, I try to bring back the accuracy to the gun by testing different 9mm ammo. Hope soon I will be able to hit the bulls eye.
regards
Peter</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Arial,Helvetica,Geneva">Dear Peter:

Modern ammo is not designed to function properly in a P-08. You will experience poor function and probably poor accuracy with it. If you shoot loads that are too hot, you may even experience damage to the pistol.

If you want perfection of operation and top accuracy, you must load your own to the original specifications. I can help you here. It's really quite easy, once you catch on to the process.

Bob

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Arial,Helvetica,Geneva">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Arial,Helvetica,Geneva">Originally posted by karmast:
<strong>To all english-speaking members:

I am again wondering about the good German, some people can speak here!! Gongrats, I would wish my English would be as half as good!!</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Arial,Helvetica,Geneva">Herr Karmast:

Hier gibt es viele gebildete Leute, dass viele Fremdsprachen sprechen koennen!

Bob

Wasn't the cone shaped bullet phased out with the introduction of the Trommelmagazin or the MP18? I believe I had heard it was due to high capacity feeding problems.

Big Norm, the velocity from an Artillery Luger would show an increase over the standard 100mm (4 inch) barrel. I don't recall the specific velocity but I it to be something over 1100 FPS. The extra length of the Artillery barrel would allow for more complete burning of the powder and better utilization of the pressures.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Arial,Helvetica,Geneva">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Arial,Helvetica,Geneva">Originally posted by George Anderson:
<strong>Wasn't the cone shaped bullet phased out with the introduction of the Trommelmagazin or the MP18? I believe I had heard it was due to high capacity feeding problems.</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Arial,Helvetica,Geneva">It's always been my understanding that it was Allied objections to the bullet design that caused the change from the truncated cone bullet to the round nose design. The Allies claimed that the blunt nose of the TC bullet caused unnecessary damage and suffering....... IOW, it was inhumane. The change took place, I believe, in 1916 so the Trommelmagazin doesn't seem to have been a factor.

Doubs, I believe the T-mag was adopted in 1916 but didn't hit the street (front) until 1917.

Hello guys,
very interesting site. I will contact in the next days the â??Kuratoriums zur F�¶rderung historischer Waffensammlungenâ?� in order to have some other information. May be we can have an interesting cooperation with Lp08 expert that builds the site (I guess Mr. Finze).

Ron, concerning the use of LP08 by the German war aircraft during WWI you can read at page 23 of my book (last caption of the page):

â??On the right below, before the popular use of machine-guns on German war aircraft, the Air force used the LP08 for various attacks. As luck would have it, the LP08 with its holster-stock were very effective. A picture â?¦â?�

In the note number 10, page 70, I describes some tests performed by Air Force. In particular the air force made two kind of tests: one from an aircraft against a test target with a size of 8 m. Another one to test the effectiveness against aircraft engine, from a distance of 100m.

The best picture available of a pilot that is firing from his aircraft with a LP08 + stock is available on the Gortz book (Die Pistole 08) where are also available a lot of information about LP08 trials.

Ciao

Mauro

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Arial,Helvetica,Geneva">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Arial,Helvetica,Geneva">Originally posted by George Anderson:
<strong>Doubs, I believe the T-mag was adopted in 1916 but didn't hit the street (front) until 1917.</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Arial,Helvetica,Geneva">George, if you have any additional information on this I'd be interested in hearing it. If the T-Mag gave problems with the TC bullets, it was likely in the drum portion as the part that fit the magazine well in the Luger should have been the same as a standard mag. At least it seems reasonable to think so. I'd not heard of this before in reference to the TC cartridges.
:)

Doubs and George,
as far as I know the TC bullets was modified during 1916 for two main reasons: the Allied propaganda against the TC-bullet because of not conforming with AIA Treaty and also for TM08 feeding problems.
The TM08 was adopted for the LP08 during the 1917 but was already employed for the Mondragon starting from 1915. So it was possible for the Kriegsministerium engineers to know problems related to TM08 feeding with TC bullet before 1916. If you have my book, this problem has been analysed at page 49 and 63.

Ciao

Mauro

Mauro, thank you for some excellent information. I was aware of the Allied objections but not aware of the TM08 feeding problems until George called it to my attention. No matter how much we know about Lugers, there's always something new to keep our interest.

Peter, welcome to the forum, :)

Ed

Mauro,
Thank you for pointing out the caption that I missed on page 23. I need to read more carefully!

I looked through my copy of G�¶rtz's "Die Pistole 08" and could not find the picture of the pilot firing a LP08 from an aircraft. Perhaps I have a different edition (1991)? While looking through the book I found a reference to the Pistole 08 being issued to NCOs and ground personnel of "Luftschiffer" and "Fliegertruppen", but no mention of officers or aircrews. In your research have you found that the LP08 was an item of issue to aircraft pilots or crews, or was it a weapon of "opportunity" that was employed when they could obtain them?

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Arial,Helvetica,Geneva">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Arial,Helvetica,Geneva">Originally posted by Ron Wood:
<strong>I looked through my copy of G�¶rtz's "Die Pistole 08" and could not find the picture of the pilot firing a LP08 from an aircraft. Perhaps I have a different edition (1991)? </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Arial,Helvetica,Geneva">I have the 2000-edition, here you can find the pic on page 153.
A pilot is possing in an "Aviatik"-plane. It is a historic propaganda pic..

Matthias,
Thank you. My edition does not have that picture, so I guess I will need to buy a newer one to see if there is any other information I am missing.

Ron,
at the beginning of WWI the aircrafts were not armed. The aircrafts were piloted by Cavalry Officers to observe the enemy positions. The aim of this first mission was â??to observeâ?� and not fight. In this context both the pilot and the observer were armed with carbines and, when the LP08 was available, with LP08. When necessary the pilot or the observer were able to fire against soldiers or other aircrafts. The LP08 and the carbines were no longer used as soon as it was possible firing with machine-gun installed on the plane.

Ciao

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Arial,Helvetica,Geneva">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Arial,Helvetica,Geneva">Originally posted by Ron Wood:
<strong>Matthias,
Thank you. My edition does not have that picture, so I guess I will need to buy a newer one to see if there is any other information I am missing.</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Arial,Helvetica,Geneva">You are welcome! I heard that the newer edition has some additional informations in it, but I can't verify it, because I don't have the older edition.

Thank you Mauro, always a pleasure to hear from you and learn something new. I was not aware that the early pilots were drawn from the Cavalry. I guess that with the advent of aircraft into warfare, the pilots had to come from somewhere, and I am sure those young daredevils were happy to swap a horse for an airplane!