I'm still a relative newby here, but I'm pretty sure I havent seen any recent posts by Mr chuckc...anyone know of he's still around?

Timn , I don't think I can buy into your theory that "all rust is created equal". If this were true, I can't see why gunmakers over the years bothered to concoct complicated formulas to rust blue with. Angier lists many of these in his book....which include substances such as nitric and hydrochloric acids, copper sulfate, ferric chloride, mercuric chloride, and various "tinctures" and "vitriols". If simple rust is going to always produce the same shade of black, you'd think they would have just used a cheap, simple solution of any diluted acid. And if hot bluing is just accelerated rust bluing (which it may be), how do you account for the red/plum color many guns ended up with? I doubt there was a drastic enough temperature difference in the bath to color temper the metal, so it had to be a chemical mixture variation.

Also ,in rust bluing the ferric oxide (rust) is converted to ferrous oxide but the trace elements of the solution are still in the matrix of the finish somewhere.....unless they boil off, which begs the question of why they were added in the first place.....my 2 cents

I'm just about ready to mix up a batch of the formula that chuckc wrote about in his archived posts....I'll try to post some pics of samples of it compared to a couple other available rust blues.

Make sure you get a good pic of that thick brown cloud that is produced when you add the raw iron.

read the formula...it doesn't use any "raw iron"

A little bit off-topic, but what solution/brand is best to get the brownish-"patina" finish that all old guns seem to end up with??? I have an old gun with some patina on it; I'd like to do it all in that worn brown coloring... :p

nitric acid 4oz
hydrochloric acid 3oz
iron 1/2 lb
distilled water 1 quart

Nails work OK as long as they aren't galvanized :)

no, Ron....I'm talking about the formula chuckc concocted..he called it the "Bern" formula....it's nitric acid, copper sulfate, ferric chloride, alcohol and distilled water

Post...you might wanna try Laurel Mountain Forge browning solution.....it makes a nice finish and less prone to streaking than others....Midway sells it

You probably want something like the browning you see on some antique guns. Browning and rust bluing is actually the same process. When you're bluing, you boil the parts in water to convert the red oxide to black oxide so the only difference is that you don't boil the parts.

Brownells and Pilkingtons formulas will usually give me a mix of red and black oxide (some parts turn black already when I apply the formula), so I would try somehing less agressive. You could possibly dilute it a bit as well to avoid the black oxide.

Once you're happy with the finish, you rinse in water and oil the parts. Some say that you also have to neutralize in baking soda, but I'm not so sure that this is necessary as long as you rinse good.

Sorry Bob...my mistake. I thought the formula in this thread was the subject. I missed the link for chuckc.

My formula calls for clean horse shoe nails

I read in one of the older Luger books that DWM hung the Luger parts by wire in the factory urinal to obtain that beautiful blue/black on their guns. If true, then there is your bluing solution right there--just start collecting it. I don't know if you have to drink German beer to get the right formula or not!!!:biggulp:

I vaguely recall reading that the ancient Japanese sword makers also used various kinds of urine to quench their swords when heat treating/tempering... :o

Could we consider urine a type of salt brine? That is whats called for in quenching water hardened tool steels.

Don't know...I've never [intentionally] tasted urine...Although I recall an episode of CSI where some fashionable women drank their own urine...From wine glasses, no less... :biggulp: :D

In Staging Battalion before leaving for WestPac Ground Forces, we were told that urine was sterile, and that urinating on a contaminated wound was an acceptable (or at least field expedient) substitute for disinfectant...

I wouldn't think it had salt in it...or it wouldn't be sterile...

They use saline solution all the time and its sterile.

Charlie

Isn't saline solution pH neutral??? Brine is heavy on salt...To the point that it burns in open wounds...

Sterile refers to lack of bacterial or virus contamination, not pH.

I bow down to superior knowledge... :bowdown: :D

That being the case...I have no idea... :p

(Hey - When I'm bored, I'll jump in anywhere...) :roflmao: