I'm must be missing something, or just not up on police models enough. I see the slot on the side for the magazine safety but there doesn't appear to be the round hole in the frame above the mag release that would be needed to activate the safety. How about some info on this from the experts.

Rich,

When the magazine safeties were abandoned, some were removed, with the holes left intact, others were simply clipped and others were neatly reworked (holes welded in). Depends on the police arsenal, the time and the budget, I guess.

Thanks Gerben I hadn't heard of the holes being welded up. As they say, you learn something new every day.

yep, thats the london proof mark for deactivation in 2005.

RichSr, you would not be able to see the hole in the frame for the mag safety as long as the side plate is on.

You're right, the right receiver marks and barrel marks are pretty trashed.

Is there a 1920 property mark on the top of the receiver as well as a date?

Interesting that there was a mag safety but no sear safety.

--Dwight

Dwight, it may have had a sear safety at one time. The side plate apparently has a different serial number and may have been replaced after a sear safety was removed. It would be interesting to know what's under the side plate.

Doesn't look like there is a rivet hole in the sear bar shelf

--Dwight

Dwight, I looked carefully at the photos but can't really tell. It appears that part of the shelf has been corroded away. Perhaps the owner will look to see if the shelf is still intact and if there is a hole where the rivet would have been. The photo below shows a Luger from which the sear safety has been removed. The hole on the right is where the rivet was. It is located where the shelf begins its taper back into the frame.

Hi,

Just checked and i can't see any evidence of holes on the shelf, but its possible they could have been filled and the pitting masks this.

There is no 1920 property mark on the receiver just 1918.

hope that helps

Iain

If this pistol had a mag safety and no sear safety, it will be the first instance of that I have seen or heard of.

Ian,

Very interesting story that came along with this pistol. Thanks for sharing!
I remember to have read something about Luger in use by Luftwaffe bombers aircrews during the first stages of the war. I think this is mention on John Walter's "The Luger Story". Most of the small pistols went to the fighters pilots, as the Bf-110 heavy fighters and bombers like the Ju-88 and He-111 had more room for bigger pistols.

As said above, I would put it in a bax, together with some Luftwaffe insgnia or even some parts of a BF-110. It would make a beautiful display.

At last, you can try to find more information about both planes at this forum:
http://forum.12oclockhigh.net/forumdisplay.php?f=8

There are some very serious researchers there and I'm pretty sure that can add more information about this incident.

Congratulations and once more thanks,

Douglas

And I suppose the equipment...Which leads me to my question: How exactly were they welded in??? Gas welding, arc [stick], maybe TIG (if it had been invented yet)??? have you inspected any that were welded in??? How were they refinished (the machining)??? Machined/milled, ground, filed, what??? :confused:

Hi Douglas - Thanks for the reply, i'll give that Forum a good look over. The search for a suitable box frame starts tomorrow...:thumbup:

I've carefully removed the side plate & taken a couple of quick photos, Its possible that there may have been a sear safety hole but the metal is just too corroded & the edge has been lost on shelf, i presume there wasnt much metal between the hole and the edge in the beginning.

From a closer look the number on the trigger matches the frame :)

Anyway, hope the pictures are of some help...

I was just looking at some pictures of a similar dated Erfurt on

http://www.phoenixinvestmentarms.com/542ErfurtPol.htm

They mention.... "A clue to the history of the gun is the milling on the front top of the receiver. The small indent at the barrel location above the date tells us the receiver was originally intended to be or was an artillery model. At some point the barrel was changed at the factory"

My Luger also has this milling. Any thoughts on the validity of that comment ?

All Erfurts from 1916 to 1918 have the Artillery rear sight notch on the receiver.

While I can't be sure, it does look as if the narrow strip of shelf outside rivet hole has corroded away. I think the odds are better than 99% that it once had a sear safety that was removed and that the side plate was replaced with one that did not have a slot milled in the top for the sear safety.

There is also clearly a hole drilled in the frame above the trigger that was required for the mag safety mechanism.

It is probable that this pistol was transferred from the police to the military where the sear and mag safeties were removed.

Nice,

the Magazine safety hole is clearly there where it belongs.

Re. to the welding techinques used. Since there was no MIG or TIG welding equipment, I guess that when welding was done, it was old fashioned arc welding or hard soldering. Although I have some welding experience (including my certificate :P ), I don't know a lot about vintage welding techniques.

The 'extruded' tube of the Haenel magazines was actually welded, and we know of modern welding techniques used in the creation and modification of the 1970s - 90s Mauser Parabellum.

Thanks for the additional pictures and info. OK, I buy that it had a sear safety. This gun is unusual in another respect, in that it lacks the 1920 property mark; almost all the other reports include the mark.

--Dwight

Hi Dwight,

thanks for the reply. Would i be right in assuming a 1920 mark would be where the gun has been rubbed back to bare metal (to put the 2005 deact proof mark on) just forward of the 1918 date?
I didn't think too much metal had been taken off, but i'll take another look tonght. From what little i know, It would be unusual for anyone to be that desctructive in a UK deactivation.