Another complicated guy who was misunderstood...Ernst Roehm. Jerry Burney

I don't love Glocks, but I do really like mine, the one I own. I love sixguns and the glock is very revolver- like in operation. Mine is also very accurate considering it's a M27 and very compact for a Glock--meaning there isn't much to hang onto.

The only time it ever failed was when I failed to properly chamber a round; it's very faithful.

A good, utilitarian pistol which doesn't conceal well for me.

To me it looks like a bar of home made soap that can launch a bullet. A monument to utilitarianism and a toilet flush on esthetics.

From the Law Enforcement angle...

Picture yourself as a newly appointed Police Chief of a department that is just forming. Your firearms budget is $10,000. You must arm and TRAIN 10 officers on that budget.

You can spend $3500 on Glocks, leaving a $6500 training budget OR you can spend $6000 on a better (more complicated) pistol leaving only $4000 to train.

"Failure to properly train" officers is one of the most common allegations in lawsuits brought against Police Departments. Glocks have become an industry standard as far as hardware goes (Glock alleges that a full 45% of US LE officers carry Glocks). One of Glocks selling points (and litigation defenses) are the three safeties (drop, trigger, firing pin). They're all passive, negating the need to train operators on their use. One must only be aware of their presence and purpose.

Law Enforcement agencies are attracted to the best handgun value on the market... not the best handgun.

In my experience, they are extremely reliable. Put another way... "They are what they are."

Jack

I have owned two Glocks. One 9mm the other .40 S&W. Both bought new in the box. The 9mm stove piped every 3rd or 4th round with every kind of ammo I could dig up. I decided to try one in .40 S&W sometime after dumping the 9mm. The .40 S&W would light strike about every 3rd round, not even firing. So, they don't "always go bang". I wouldn't bet my life on one, nor even own another one.

A close friend is an NRA certified pistol instructor, who used to give courses at the local range. He said that without a doubt that Glocks were the worst pistols that he experienced for jams and mis-fires on the range.

I have another friend who is the Senior Training officer on the local police force. He was also the department armorer, when they went to Glocks. He told the Chief that he would resign before he would carry a Glock. He carries a Sig .40 and the force has the option of Glock or Sig for carry weapons. The majority of the old timers carry Sigs.

From what I have seen, heard and experienced, I would never own another...

Well just as an update i found the pin i lost, and i figured out how to take the slide off. The reason from what i can tell was seeing i reassembled the gun without the pin in the grip, the trigger and the assembly were caught on the firing pin, being the trigger couldn't release the pin being it couldn't fire without the pin in the grip to hold everything together. So i just took the slide plate off, removed the firing pin, and bingo slide came right off. after that i just reassembled the slide, and frame, then put the pin i had lost back in the grip. Reassembled everything and shazam! the gun works as it should. =D

Amazing how everything works as designed when there are no leftover pieces... :D

first put the locking block pin in and then the slide stop lever. The spring on the lever must go under the pin. then the trigger pin, thats the issue.

Tac makes a good point about reassembly. The simpler the better. It has been a military standard for over a hundred years. Of course Police actions and Military are quite different but the principle remains applicable for much the same reason.
Jerry Burney

Tac, I thought you might know the difference between typical Police actions and Military excursions being so knowledgable and all but I see you are unclear about it.
Naming just one battle scenario is myopic in the extreme. It shows a clear misunderstanding of the differentation of missions assigned to totally seperate enforcement intities.
In the case of Police.. the battle is likely to be very short with little opportunity for support or resupply to the opposing forces. Criminals do not have the logistics for this and are principally on the run. Police are often back at the precinct house within hours if not minutes of a gun battle. If a weapon malfunctions it is likely the criminal element will take the opportunity to escape rather than press the attack.
Military forces are often placed in a much different environment. Probably remote location, perhaps resupply difficulties. Weather factors. Dirt, mud, snow. No squad car close by..The enemy is more prone to press an attack that makes a malfunctioning weapon much less desirable. I am sure there are many more examples but my time for education of the masses is limeted.
Jerry Burney

My point was that a gun in bits is a gun in bits, and the fewer bits the better, whether you are soldier or a police officer.

I thought this was your point earlier and with which I agreed...Then there was the stunning scenario invisioned by Tac where there is no difference in Police and Military...and indeed in the limeted aformentioned scenario there is of course, none. In the broader spectrum there is a great deal of difference. I was merely pointing out that apples is apples and oranges is..well you get the idea.
As far as patronizing you, I do no such thing. You asked... Wosta difference?
Now you know.
Jerry Burney

Jerry,
Thank you for pointing that out. Depending on whose statistics you favor, the average distance between combatants in police shootouts is between 10 - 20 feet. They are usually over within seconds.

Law Enforcement training has come a long way. In the 50's - 60's, long range bullseye type shooting was the order of the day. Returning vets showed rookies "How it was done". Police training mimicked the military course of fire.

In the seventies, the FBI analyzed gunfights and came up with "The Training to End All Training". The problem was... it wasn't. The 1986 episode in Miami gave pause.

The best training I've ever been involved with normally begins something like this... "We are going to show you a way to do this. It should not be taken as the way to do this. Take what you like about our training and make it work for your agency."

I didn't hit the scene until the 90's, so I'm going anecdotal on the prior years (but I have my info from good sources). I will say that I've been privy to some pretty good training.

The best training introduction I ever got was this video (really):
http://youtube.com/watch?v=2eMkth8FWno

My friends, this video typifies... A WINNING ATTITUDE! (the only attitude appropriate for a gunfight).

Jack

Well, I was in Military and Police (US Army MP), so we trained for war, but worked the road daily (well, I did my first couple of years). I always tried to teach my troops the "civilian" way of being a cop; (it is generally a lot rougher in civilian life than on a military base as an officer). What was big in the 1980's was the series of books called Survival (uhhhh, my mind is blank) and this was fairly new to many officers, to look at every situation as a possible survival situation. Being aware is the most important thing, at all times.

Now, what was this discussion about and howcome Tac and Jerry are bumping heads??????


Ed

Now, what was this discussion about and howcome Tac and Jerry are bumping heads??????

Not me! I agree with everything he says....

Besides, to get back to the point..I hate glocks. Plastic banana rubber chicken crap. Designed by committee for the politically correct mantra..safety.
Most people forget there's a safety on semi auto pistols and they are looking down at the pistol trying to figure out why it dosen't work when they are shot by their opponant.
Thats why I enjoy shooting auto pistols but carry a revolver.

Guns? What gun?

I lost all of mine in a horrible smelting accident.... :(

Hey Tac,

CSI I am pretty sure uses the dreaded Glock... but a quick look through a couple of NCIS episodes verified that the service pistol is SIG... not glock... you are not often wrong my dear friend... but this time your selection of examples went one TV show too far. My Best to you as always... I still owe you a big favor... care to collect? ...I stand ready to assist you from across the water... when is your next visit to the ex-colonies?

Tac, I used to live in Seaside! I have several homes around the country to follow the weather but if I were ever to get another it would be the Cannon Beach-Seaside area for the beautiful beaches. Truely a stunning part of the USA. I am not particularly fond of the weather there at the first of the year but I love the angry Sea...Jerry Burney

Geeeeeeezzzzzz I only have one Glock and one house. Im gonna have to get busy :)

I think one Glock is enough but you're going to have to get at least one more house! :D

:roflmao:

Boys..It's too late. All the cheap real estate deals are over! I bought many decades ago when houses wern't 300 grand. Now I have trouble with the upkeep and taxes...don't envy me...I am property poor but chasing the good weather is deffinately the way to go!
Jerry Burney