I don't dispute that much of todays production is CAD/CAM, but I guarantee you that a good die maker/jeweler can create a wax model that is every bit as detailed and precise as machine made. I have seen incredible detail in hand made wax. Also, I did not mean that the grips would have been made by lost wax casting. The wax model would have been used to make a female mold in a more permanent substance. Then it would be possible to crank out many sets (lets see if any more turn up).

Ron

My wife owned and operated a candy business for 10 years. She made candy and -- also sold the molds.

Because of a customer's request, she inquired (of the mold manufacturer) if a mold was available in a particular design which was a little popular at the time. She was told that it cost $90,000 to create the master mold (which would make the individual molds. So the company was not going to do it because, even though popluar, it was not popular enough to sell enough candy molds to make them money.

She was told this around 18 years ago. I doubt if the process has become any cheaper.

Perhaps hand made molds were used. Perhaps this was done in the early 40s, perhaps in the late 40s or even in the early 90s.

It is possible, but is it probable ???

A very interesting discussion... this is the type of thread that stimulates me the most on this forum... educated speculation of the how and why things were done or not done 60 odd years ago...

I appreciate everyone's input... and look forward to more.

Hi,

Making a mold for food substances is more expensive because of the physical requirements of the material.

A simple casting mold can be made quite cheaply. I once watched a bunch of Cuban car mechanics knock up a new 'classic' car trunklid logo in minutes. Just a simple sand cast. (on tv, not in Cuba :D)

Gentlemen,

A very interesting discussion in deed. I do not have much knowledge of Lugers in general or about grips in particular; however I do know that the Germans were pretty anal about symbols and signs. Keeping that in mind, I find it very unlikely that this slanted version of the NSDAP eagle could have been made during WW2, at least in Germany. Modifying a symbol like this would, to many German officials, appear as sacrilege.

Regards,

Balder

Candy molds are made of "thin" plastic. (Much like the plastic found in a 2 liter coke bottle.)

Charles,
I wouldn't be at all surprised that it cost around $90K to make this kind of master mold. It is made in two parts, male and female, and is made of highly polished metal to very close tolerances to be able to stamp out the plastic molds at temperatures just below the melting point of the plastic. Pretty precision stuff and expensive. The type of mold I am suggesting is not as precise and would not hold up for mass production but could be used for a limited run before it became useless.

I am surprised that there is so much discussion on a pair of grips which are totally WRONG. Under no condition would the German NSDAP government agency during WWII allow their national NSDAP eagle to be applied to a pair of (non-regulation) grips where the swastika was at the wrong angle and the eagle being slanted. These grips are probably 'post-war' or made by 'Waffenfabrik USA'.

An example of a correct NSDAP eagle can be observed on a genuine PPK Political Leader grip, and comparing a correct NSDAP eagle with the one shown on this Luger is like 'night and day'.

It is a shame that Simpson decided to list such a pistol on his web site at a ridculous price hoping that some 'sucker' will fall over it and buy it. It demonstrates that his motive is only money without upholding his reputation which is on the decline as he continues to disappoint collectors. He is walking on a thin line by occassionally offering incorrect merchandise even if he makes no guarantees (on the grips). As the saying goes, "something is not right". If Simpson cannot distinguish between right and wrong items after 25+ years in the business, then he is playing risky business which could likely backfire on him if he continues along this path. It does not take much s*** to make a bad smell.

My comments/remarks are not intended to harm Simpson Ltd, but what I say is based on fact, knowledge and reality. I notice that this forum can have a 'political umbrella' which will protect some people, but everyone has different opinions and knowledge (some more than others) which they should be able to express.

Albert

About time someone got the point.

I dont know why people dance around these pieces with chatter when there is a much greater issue, which is what we call "trolling for suckers".

A dealer with this reputation would be out of his mind where I come from to try this crap. 8000.00 for a pair of grips? and throw Kenyons name?. I dont know Kenyon but I know his books so how much weight do I put in that?.

I personally would not care if they were tested by grinding them and sprinking them on his cornflakes, that is fraud and gluttony whether the piece is cnsignment or not a totally inexcusable buisness practice and a sham.

Absolutley no excuse for this from a top dealer, I buy lots of toys man, but not from sellers like this.

It is absolutely FAKE, and you will never see something like that outside the US.
It is easy to make a mould (resin) with a pair of real black widow grips.
After, you just have to engrave the mould. And the engraved part will be outside the surface of the grips...
I did that for a shooter, from a black widow pair, to make soft "Pachmayr alike" grips, rubber with metal insert. So easy you can't imagine!

But these people who are making these things are so idiot that they put the swastika with the wrong angle.

It is a shame to propose a fake at this price...

Beware if you see any marking on parts, tools, guns. 99% are fake.

do you guys remember those fancy wood grips with swastika, headskull ++ on them?
I'm just guessing, perhaps the same guy, with access to some neat equipment is doing this for a business?
This is probably not the last one to show up..

Albert, perhaps you did not read all of my large posting regarding the non-authenticity of these grips... and the circumstances surrounding the sale of this Luger...

I had already voiced my opinion about all the reasons why these grips could not be authentic...

Simpsons is a business, and in the business of making money... What they sell and how they sell it determines their reputation in the marketplace... I think this item and it's sale price may have a detrimental effect on their overall business, at least from those people who are members of this forum...

Regardless of where, or from whom you obtain something... the caution is always CAVEAT EMPTOR...

Simpson's may sell this item to someone who is unknowledgeable about Lugers, but I think the net result to their business may far outweigh the profit they may make on this one Luger...

The intellectual and philosophical discussion about this item and the circumstances surrounding it's offer for sale has educated many of those members who would never have known... I congradulate you for your consideration of this event and appreciate your input in this matter... the public discussion of such things is how we keep our fellow Luger enthusiasts educated to prevent them from being ripped off.

These, then, gotta be the "real deal" as well...;)

http://forum.lugerforum.com/lfupload/arty_grips_2.jpg

No shortcuts on those puppies. They were made by a master craftsman. I am guessing they are an overlay of sheet silver, pierced and formed to an ebony backing, and the ebony is actually incised so that the overlay is inset into the ebony. It may be the lighting that makes it look gold, or it may have been gold plated...I would be real surprised if it is solid gold, but who knows. Somebody shelled out some bucks for these grips.

Those are snazzy Pete,do the emblems match the left one looks white? what are a set of grips like that worth? clint

No expert here, but the one's Pete are showing I think belong to Goering's Luger.

No, the grips on Goering's Luger (SN#16999) were white with inlays... not black.

Okay, same style though right? Those grips look so familiar.

One wonders.

Simpson has two FN Hi-Power holter shoulder stocks listed for sale:


http://www.simpsonltd.com/product_in...oducts_id=2869

http://www.simpsonltd.com/product_in...oducts_id=1710

The are listed as "Pre-War" holster stocks.

A glance reveals that the wood has pre-war configuration.

But the holster is "Post War". Additionally, the holster is attached in the post war manner.

So what we have is a pre-war stock to which someone attached a holster ----> after WWII.

Hardly a pre-war item.