Yes, what are Muncheburg and Bock shooting??? I don't see a toggle... :confused:

Well, I think it's time to revive this rather old thread, with good reason:

The quality of the Luger group photo was quite bad, it was first published in the 1940s editions of 'Moderne Faustfeuerwaffen' and probably lifted from that book to be reused in Fred Datig's 'Luger' book.

Just recently, I was able to lay my hands on one of the original prints of the photograph that was used in Bock's and Datig's books. Since these old negatives are very, very good and sharp, it's possible to show the entire view in much more detail.

It is possible to work out that Georg Luger Jr. is holding a luger pistol equipped with a toggle lock, while Heinrich Hoffmann is holding one without a toggle lock. It is also clear that Baurat Meyer (sitting) is holding a revolver of some sort, as well as his doggy.

Georg Luger Sr. is only armed with an umbrella.

what does the cardboard man look like in the photo?

Flat and reasonably white :D

When looking at images of Mr. August Meyer, it appears that somewhere during the identification process 2 persons were swapped.
The man who is holding the cigar looks like August Meyer, while the man who is sitting down and was identified as Meyer doesn't look like him.

So most probably, the sitting man is Prof. Tschoepke and the man with the cigar is Baurat Meyer.

Gerben,
You started this thread with “…there is no authenticated image of Hugo Borchardt known”. That may very well still be the case. But in 2012 Mobray Publishing put out a large format (8 ½”X11”) paperback book “The Evolution of Military Automatic Pistols / Self-loading Pistol Designs of Two World Wars and the Men who Invented Them” by Gorden Bruce. There are 24 designs presented with biographical sketches of the inventors. The first article is on Hugo Borchardt and includes two photos that are identified as Hugo. I was very excited with this revelation and after a bit of digging through Mobray I was able to contact the author. He of course did not know me so he was not very forthcoming with information, but he did avow the photos were of Borchardt and that he had acquired them from an un-named source in Poland several years ago. That was the extent of the information I could obtain, so there remains a question if these photos are actually Borchardt, but they might be.
Ron

Dear All,
This topic already pointed out that the personal relationship between Georg Luger and Borchardt was very bad for well known reason.

Also the relationship between Paul Mauser and Georg Luger was very bad.

On the contrary the relationship between Paul Mauser and Borchardt was a good one.

In our last book: Paul Mauser - His Life, Company, and Handgun Development 1838 - 1914

we discussed about the relationship of Paul Mauser with Luger and Borchardt based upon original documents and letters.

I think it is a very good read and I am sure you will find it interesting.

Additionally, you will see a handmade toggle drawing made by Hugo Borchardt and kept in the Paul Mauser Archive.

Also funny, you will see in an Original Mauser sale book, the sale of a Borchardt pistol, most probably a pistol acquired by Mauser for testing purposes and then sold when not necessary anymore.

Good read,

Mauro

Mauro and Gerben's book includes the letter that introduced Luger to Mauser, and some hard evidence of what Mauser really thought of Luger... At the time, Mauser was paying Luger royalties on an invention originally created by Mauser... That's an interesting story...

Thank You All~ and the late, Fred Datig~