Ok, I don't mind putting my ignorance on display, so I'll ask the question I'm thinking.

There is a strong consensus that the gun is fake. If the C/N stamps are fake, and I certainly agree that they look very fishy, then that blows my theory that the gun is a 1920 Navy Commercial.

So, taking that to be true, my question is: What the heck was this forger trying to emulate? What did he start with, and what was his ending goal?

A counterfeiter doesn't print out a batch of $3.00 bills.

Ron, thanks for the 1/2 point!

Curl

Fake 1916 Navy
 

[QUOTE=Dwight Gruber;332991]Being late to the game, I will only point out that the c/Ns are fake.

Dwight, your assertion doesn't mean much without an elaboration. Would you provide more detail please?

Jack

The serifs on the N show it to be upside down; the crown is too precise and too finely detailed; the crown is too far away from the N; the proportions of the stamp seem subtly wrong and it seems to be too large. This last is an intuitive impression and can only be confirmed by direct comparative measurement.

--Dwight

Thanks, Dwight.

The only thing I would say in reference to the backward appearing "N" is all the examples I have seen over the years, along with one's I have, and I have a few, have always appeared backward to me, and this goes back years. The main reason is, it appears to me that the left, or leading, "leg" of the "N" is the thinner, but should follow instead of leading, what I see as the thicker right "leg".

So to me the gun gets this part correct. For the rest, I'll defer to you. However, I can't see a Faker observant enough to get the backward "N" correct, (have to make the die, even) and then put it on a gun that in my opinion would be more valuable without it.

Now, this is just my observation from a first glance, and on which I am not adamant. Anyone can take it apart and I would like to see some do that. Maybe I can learn something.

Jack

I didn't say backward, I said upside-down. The issue is not the thickness of the legs, but the position and direction of the letter serifs. Thickness difference in stamping can be attributed to uneven positioning of the stempel during the stamping stroke.

SPECULATION: the marking under discussion is the result of two different stamps, the N being held in the wrong orientation and the crown being a separate, more finely detailed stempel.

Fakers are very often...well, I want to say stupid, but let's just go with ignorant, or just unobservant. This is the characteristic which allows us to catch them out.

--Dwight

Ok Dwight,

Spending a little more time with Norme's posted GB photos, some examples I have, and your explanation I can see what you are talking about. I wish it was not whited in, but I can see how you come to your conclusion. I don't know about being so emphatic about it, though.

I'm skeptical.

Jack

Not to put too fine a point on it, but technically the "N" of the Crown/N impression is not upside down...it is a mirror image. That is what happens when you hold the stamp upside down to apply it. :)
Ron

Thank you Ron.

--Dwight

For any of you wondering how fakers 'mark' their imposters.

https://www.waffenamt-shop.com/en/6-...eriod-to-1945-

https://www.waffenamt-shop.com/804-t...uftwaffe-2.jpg

I certainly DO NOT condone the use of these dies to deface any historical firearm or any other thing.
It's a sad world we live in so know the enemy :(

I goofed. Rich (Sheepherder) pointed out to me that my illustrations and text were somewhat in error. I was correct that the "N" stamp on the gun was the result of rotating the stamp 180 degrees so that the resultant stamp is upside down, therefore the left example is a correct representation of an inverted stamp, but not a mirror image (scratch out "mirror image" in the text and example image :)).
Here is what a mirror image would look like (and it isn't what is on the gun).
Ron

Aw man! Now everybody knows! :grr:

No, that is apples and oranges. The first illustration in my original post "Rotated 180 degrees" is the correct illustration, it just should not have had the additional "(Mirror Image)" notation because it isn't a mirror image. The correct orientation of the "N"should be with the two serifs on the left vertical stroke and a single serif on the right vertical stroke. Since the stamping tool was rotated 180 degrees (stamp held upside down) when the impression was made on the subject Luger receiver, the N on the receiver as shown has the two serifs on the right vertical stroke, therefore incorrect.
Ron

OK, I deleted my incorrect pic. :thumbup:

Nicely explained Ron.