Grandpa's gun - Page 3

apis mellifera · 11-24-2012, 04:43 PM

A couple of things to consider:

I have my Grandfather's Luger and I would never part with it.

I would never "restore" it because that would remove most of the history and collector value. That matters little to me.

I would never "restore" it because things are only original once. While the appearance may be improved, it would not longer have the original finish. That matters somewhat to me.

I would never "restore" it because it would cease to be how my Grandfather left it. That matters most to me.

If you have the honor of receiving your Grandfather's things, I'd recommend leaving things as they are.

skeeter4206 · 11-24-2012, 06:53 PM

Amen with that statement. That way you can always look at the gun and think about the times you had with your grandfather. As time passes youll respect that thought and be glad you left it the way your grandfather had it. And the story to tell with it.

Edward Tinker · 11-24-2012, 04:31 PM

WB, I opened the thread and said, ohhh, a dutch gun (I like them) and then saw it was from long ago

Remember, usually not a restore, just clean her up is best

swampsavage · 11-24-2012, 04:39 PM

The dagger is, indeed, Heer (army) although the grip is not ivory. It's a celluloid type product. It may have darkened some but may also have been colored when new. The blade should not be sharp. There were several dozen different makers of them and should have a makers mark near the hilt. They were not weapons of war and carried with dress uniforms on ceremonial occasions.

mrerick · 11-24-2012, 06:38 PM

WillyBoy,

It would be wise to stabilize the rust occurring on your pistol. You can do that by using oiled bronze or steel wool, then properly lubricating it with a preserving gun oil (like RemOil or something similar). This should be done after carefully removing the grips so that you can see those metal surfaces, and not get the oil onto the grips.

The plate is likely softer than steel, so be quite careful not to scratch it.

Your pistol is in such rare and good condition that it doesn't need restoration. Refinishing it would destroy it's history and a good portion of it's value.

Make sure your grandmother knows of your interest, and commitment to preserve it as a family heirloom.

Marc

willyboy · 11-24-2012, 10:21 PM

Wow, I'm overwhelmed with all of these responses! I disassembled and reassembled the gun tonight, but haven't cleaned, I ran out of time. I'll be cleaning it soon. I removed the grips and checked them. One of them is obviously wider and seemingly less worn, but it has the same serial number. I did not see a part on it that isn't matching, which surprised me. The magazine is not matching however. One problem I found, is I can't get it the toggle to snap down when the magazine is in. It will release when the mag is released, and then it will will click with the pull of the trigger as normal. Any idea why it might be doing this?

Thanks everyone.

willyboy · 12-13-2012, 08:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by willyboy

Wow, I'm overwhelmed with all of these responses! I disassembled and reassembled the gun tonight, but haven't cleaned, I ran out of time. I'll be cleaning it soon. I removed the grips and checked them. One of them is obviously wider and seemingly less worn, but it has the same serial number. I did not see a part on it that isn't matching, which surprised me. The magazine is not matching however. One problem I found, is I can't get it the toggle to snap down when the magazine is in. It will release when the mag is released, and then it will will click with the pull of the trigger as normal. Any idea why it might be doing this?

Thanks everyone.

Well, I feel dumb. I couldn't get the toggle to **** when the mag is in, and I realized I was pressing down on the grip safety which kept me from being able to **** the gun. Pulling the toggle back feels pretty stiff and I was wondering if leaving the toggle locked back for a while would help loosen the spring.

Also, if you look really closely at the pictures I posted at the start of this thread, there's a small space just a millimeter or so wide between the toggle mechanism and where the barrel begins. I can clearly see into the chamber area through the space. Any idea what is causing this?

willyboy · 12-15-2012, 11:48 PM

Can anyone help me with this?

mrerick · 11-25-2012, 09:48 AM

Double check to make sure that the small link at the rear of the receiver has properly caught the recoil spring lever (that leads down into the grip area).

Generally follow the re-assembly instructions on this site. It's easy to miss hooking the recoil link properly.

Marc

c3006 · 11-25-2012, 09:53 AM

A Dutch is still on my list,I hope your grandmother leaves it to you as so many times I see family members have no appreciation for items left to them.

mgvince · 11-25-2012, 12:33 PM

The bolt hold open, is activated by the follower of the empty magazine. Unless this pistol would not have a bolt hold open lock; it is normal for the bolt to lock open with empty mag in place.

willyboy · 12-12-2012, 12:40 AM

I know this gun is definitely NOT a shooter, but if we don't plan on ever selling it, would it really hurt that much to shoot a few magazines every once in a while?

Jack Lawman · 12-12-2012, 07:35 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by willyboy

I know this gun is definitely NOT a shooter, but if we don't plan on ever selling it, would it really hurt that much to shoot a few magazines every once in a while?

In recent internet research on a luger, I came across an interesting quote from someone's father, "It aint worth anything unless you sell it."

I thought it an interesting perspective. It made me think. At the end of the day, whatever you own when you die is worthless (to you, anyway).

Jack

alanint · 12-12-2012, 05:30 AM

Totally up to the owner. As long as they understand that breaking a part will significantly lower the value and rob a future generation of one more complete, matching historical pistol.

mrerick · 12-15-2012, 11:51 PM

I think you're describing the gap between the front of the breech block (where the extractor is located) and the rear of the chamber.

A very small gap may be normal. You may also have a problem with dirt under the extractor. Too large a gap may cause a headspace problem which can become rather dangerous. The rear of the cartridge base needs to be supported by the face of the breech block when the Luger is in battery.

Marc

willyboy · 12-16-2012, 01:04 PM

I have cleaned it thoroughly and don't think that dirt is an issue. Is there a possible mechanical/structural issue here?

DavidJayUden · 12-16-2012, 01:59 PM

My guess would be a re-assembly issue. Like the computer geeks refer to as an "I. D. ten T" error. Can you send us a few more photos of the problem areas and members can help out. Maybe the spring hooks are not getting picked up during reassembly?
dju

willyboy · 12-16-2012, 05:34 PM

I'll be sure to get a few new photos.

DavidJayUden · 12-16-2012, 08:31 PM

Also, when the gun is disassembled and the chamber is confirmed to be EMPTY, does the toggle close all the way? If you focus close enough you should be able to feel, hear or see what points are making contact and stopping forward travel. And by "disassembled" I mean with the upper slid off the lower.
dju

willyboy · 12-23-2012, 02:00 AM

You'll have to bear with me on these photos, I took them with my phone. Here you can see the issue.

Relatively clean breach block area.

Rear of the chamber where the extractor slides in. I made sure to scrape out any debris (there really was none).

You can see that the S-hook is properly engaged in the main spring. (Yes I see the rust. The flash definitely exaggerates it, I have only scrubbed with cotton patches at this point, haven't gotten around to attacking with some steel wool.)

There is a little bit of rust in this area. Honestly there isn't enough to cause this.

And here are the grips, because I never gave pictures of them. The one on the left is the GS stamped on. The one on the right is the original one.

I will be getting after the rust soon, but I'm wondering if there are any lugerforum members in Arkansas, USA that might like to look at the gun in person, if they feel they can help with this issue.

11-24-2012, 04:31 PM	#3
Edward Tinker Super Moderator Eternal Lifer LugerForum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: North of Spokane, WA Posts: 15,980 Thanks: 2,079 Thanked 4,614 Times in 2,127 Posts	WB, I opened the thread and said, ohhh, a dutch gun (I like them) and then saw it was from long ago Remember, usually not a restore, just clean her up is best __________________ Edward Tinker ************ Co-Author of Police Lugers - Co-Author of Simson Lugers Author of Veteran Bring Backs Vol I, Vol II, Vol III and Vol IV

11-24-2012, 04:39 PM	#4
swampsavage User Join Date: Jul 2012 Location: Jackson County, GA Posts: 43 Thanks: 5 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	The dagger is, indeed, Heer (army) although the grip is not ivory. It's a celluloid type product. It may have darkened some but may also have been colored when new. The blade should not be sharp. There were several dozen different makers of them and should have a makers mark near the hilt. They were not weapons of war and carried with dress uniforms on ceremonial occasions. __________________ John

11-24-2012, 06:38 PM	#5
mrerick Super Moderator - Patron LugerForum Life Patron Join Date: Dec 2009 Location: Eastern North Carolina, USA Posts: 3,925 Thanks: 1,377 Thanked 3,140 Times in 1,520 Posts	WillyBoy, It would be wise to stabilize the rust occurring on your pistol. You can do that by using oiled bronze or steel wool, then properly lubricating it with a preserving gun oil (like RemOil or something similar). This should be done after carefully removing the grips so that you can see those metal surfaces, and not get the oil onto the grips. The plate is likely softer than steel, so be quite careful not to scratch it. Your pistol is in such rare and good condition that it doesn't need restoration. Refinishing it would destroy it's history and a good portion of it's value. Make sure your grandmother knows of your interest, and commitment to preserve it as a family heirloom. Marc __________________ Igitur si vis pacem, para bellum - - Therefore if you want peace, prepare for war.

11-25-2012, 09:48 AM	#9
mrerick Super Moderator - Patron LugerForum Life Patron Join Date: Dec 2009 Location: Eastern North Carolina, USA Posts: 3,925 Thanks: 1,377 Thanked 3,140 Times in 1,520 Posts	Double check to make sure that the small link at the rear of the receiver has properly caught the recoil spring lever (that leads down into the grip area). Generally follow the re-assembly instructions on this site. It's easy to miss hooking the recoil link properly. Marc __________________ Igitur si vis pacem, para bellum - - Therefore if you want peace, prepare for war.

11-25-2012, 09:53 AM	#10
c3006 User Join Date: Sep 2005 Location: east tn Posts: 526 Thanks: 5 Thanked 12 Times in 5 Posts	A Dutch is still on my list,I hope your grandmother leaves it to you as so many times I see family members have no appreciation for items left to them. __________________ Men Accustomed unto thier arms and their liberties will never endure the yoke. James Harrington 1776

11-24-2012, 04:43 PM	#1
apis mellifera User Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: WV Posts: 149 Thanks: 3 Thanked 24 Times in 8 Posts	A couple of things to consider: I have my Grandfather's Luger and I would never part with it. I would never "restore" it because that would remove most of the history and collector value. That matters little to me. I would never "restore" it because things are only original once. While the appearance may be improved, it would not longer have the original finish. That matters somewhat to me. I would never "restore" it because it would cease to be how my Grandfather left it. That matters most to me. If you have the honor of receiving your Grandfather's things, I'd recommend leaving things as they are.

11-24-2012, 06:53 PM	#2
skeeter4206 User Join Date: Aug 2012 Location: Augusta, GA Posts: 448 Thanks: 52 Thanked 88 Times in 49 Posts	Amen with that statement. That way you can always look at the gun and think about the times you had with your grandfather. As time passes youll respect that thought and be glad you left it the way your grandfather had it. And the story to tell with it.

11-24-2012, 10:21 PM	#6
willyboy User Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: Arkansas Posts: 30 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Wow, I'm overwhelmed with all of these responses! I disassembled and reassembled the gun tonight, but haven't cleaned, I ran out of time. I'll be cleaning it soon. I removed the grips and checked them. One of them is obviously wider and seemingly less worn, but it has the same serial number. I did not see a part on it that isn't matching, which surprised me. The magazine is not matching however. One problem I found, is I can't get it the toggle to snap down when the magazine is in. It will release when the mag is released, and then it will will click with the pull of the trigger as normal. Any idea why it might be doing this? Thanks everyone.

12-15-2012, 11:48 PM	#8
willyboy User Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: Arkansas Posts: 30 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Can anyone help me with this?

11-25-2012, 12:33 PM	#11
mgvince Patron LugerForum Patron Join Date: Jun 2011 Posts: 21 Thanks: 0 Thanked 1 Time in 1 Post	The bolt hold open, is activated by the follower of the empty magazine. Unless this pistol would not have a bolt hold open lock; it is normal for the bolt to lock open with empty mag in place.

12-12-2012, 12:40 AM	#12
willyboy User Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: Arkansas Posts: 30 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	I know this gun is definitely NOT a shooter, but if we don't plan on ever selling it, would it really hurt that much to shoot a few magazines every once in a while?

12-12-2012, 05:30 AM	#14
alanint User Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: Marco Island, Florida Posts: 4,867 Thanks: 1,685 Thanked 1,917 Times in 1,193 Posts	Totally up to the owner. As long as they understand that breaking a part will significantly lower the value and rob a future generation of one more complete, matching historical pistol.

12-15-2012, 11:51 PM	#15
mrerick Super Moderator - Patron LugerForum Life Patron Join Date: Dec 2009 Location: Eastern North Carolina, USA Posts: 3,925 Thanks: 1,377 Thanked 3,140 Times in 1,520 Posts	I think you're describing the gap between the front of the breech block (where the extractor is located) and the rear of the chamber. A very small gap may be normal. You may also have a problem with dirt under the extractor. Too large a gap may cause a headspace problem which can become rather dangerous. The rear of the cartridge base needs to be supported by the face of the breech block when the Luger is in battery. Marc __________________ Igitur si vis pacem, para bellum - - Therefore if you want peace, prepare for war.

12-16-2012, 01:04 PM	#16
willyboy User Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: Arkansas Posts: 30 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	I have cleaned it thoroughly and don't think that dirt is an issue. Is there a possible mechanical/structural issue here?

12-16-2012, 01:59 PM	#17
DavidJayUden Patron LugerForum Patron Join Date: Nov 2008 Posts: 4,047 Thanks: 578 Thanked 1,414 Times in 887 Posts	My guess would be a re-assembly issue. Like the computer geeks refer to as an "I. D. ten T" error. Can you send us a few more photos of the problem areas and members can help out. Maybe the spring hooks are not getting picked up during reassembly? dju

12-16-2012, 05:34 PM	#18
willyboy User Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: Arkansas Posts: 30 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	I'll be sure to get a few new photos.

12-16-2012, 08:31 PM	#19
DavidJayUden Patron LugerForum Patron Join Date: Nov 2008 Posts: 4,047 Thanks: 578 Thanked 1,414 Times in 887 Posts	Also, when the gun is disassembled and the chamber is confirmed to be EMPTY, does the toggle close all the way? If you focus close enough you should be able to feel, hear or see what points are making contact and stopping forward travel. And by "disassembled" I mean with the upper slid off the lower. dju

12-23-2012, 02:00 AM	#20
willyboy User Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: Arkansas Posts: 30 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	You'll have to bear with me on these photos, I took them with my phone. Here you can see the issue. Relatively clean breach block area. Rear of the chamber where the extractor slides in. I made sure to scrape out any debris (there really was none). You can see that the S-hook is properly engaged in the main spring. (Yes I see the rust. The flash definitely exaggerates it, I have only scrubbed with cotton patches at this point, haven't gotten around to attacking with some steel wool.) There is a little bit of rust in this area. Honestly there isn't enough to cause this. And here are the grips, because I never gave pictures of them. The one on the left is the GS stamped on. The one on the right is the original one. I will be getting after the rust soon, but I'm wondering if there are any lugerforum members in Arkansas, USA that might like to look at the gun in person, if they feel they can help with this issue.