Someone Claims, This Is A Fake One? - Page 2

ithacaartist · 04-19-2016, 06:47 PM

Don,

You'll find Mauser's commemorative models occasionally. My impression is that since they originally sold at extra-high prices back then--I know a man whose father-in-law purchased one in the 80's and it was around $3k at that time--many of them were put away in the box to appreciate in value. I noticed a couple at auction a few weeks ago, and they had attained a level near $5k!

There is nothing particularly special about most of them as far as I know, aside from a special series serial number, which may be a bit different, and the commemorative markings on them. Unless this is your collecting niche, you'll be paying extra for mere cosmetics. Their re-make of the 1902 Cartridge Counter is one that is rare and distinctive, even as a reproduction, and the price one would command reflects this.

I won a M1900/2000 at auction not too long ago, for a nice price. It is one of the stainless steel guns made in Houston, Texas in the 1990s, but with a black finish, a special serial #, and commemorative engraved text. I have shot it a few times, but even though its parts are not numbered to match, they are even more difficult to find than parts for originals, so I avoid pushing its limits...

DonVoigt · 04-20-2016, 08:40 AM

Don't these later pistols use some or many cast parts?
While serviceable, would thye be "better"?

Someone just asked me by PM, and I don't know the answer- as I don't own one of these late Mausers:

Are the typical small parts numbered to match?

ithacaartist · 04-20-2016, 11:05 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DonVoigt

Are the typical small parts numbered to match?

No, they are not.

Sergio Natali · 04-20-2016, 01:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DonVoigt

Don't these later pistols use some or many cast parts?
While serviceable, would thye be "better"?

Someone just asked me by PM, and I don't know the answer- as I don't own one of these late Mausers:

Are the typical small parts numbered to match?

I'm far from being an expert on metallurgy but I've always tought that forged parts are better than cast ones, at the same time I believe that these newish Lugers were made with stronger steels.

Dick Herman · 04-21-2016, 02:21 PM

Forgings versus castings is a very widely debated issue. Both methods of treating the base metals have positive results if properly applied. Modern steels are made with better alloying elements and more stringent quality control than years past. Many high quality firearms are made today with cast components. IMHO The Mauser Parabellums manufactured during the 1970s are better made than the ones made prior tto 1950. PS. I don't know if the Maurer Parabellums were forgings or castings.

DonVoigt · 04-21-2016, 02:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dick Herman

Forgings versus castings is a very widely debated issue. Both methods of treating the base metals have positive results if properly applied. Modern steels are made with better alloying elements and more stringent quality control than years past. Many high quality firearms are made today with cast components. IMHO The Mauser Parabellums manufactured during the 1970s are better made than the ones made prior tto 1950. PS. I don't know if the Maurer Parabellums were forgings or castings.

Dick,
I have had the occasion to work on these and they are not made "better", but worse. JMHO.

Modern firearms are also made with "space age" materials, like aluminum and plastic- it does not necessarily make them better; but certainly does make them cheaper to produce and sell.

jrwinter44 · 05-16-2016, 06:07 PM

Something I noticed in European gun shops was the prevalence of refinished handguns. Many of these were nicely done with minimal buffing but were priced about the same as guns with original finishes. To some I know, it is natural to refinish "unsightly" signs of wear and they don't understand why I wouldn't consider it.

DonColt · 04-16-2016, 10:39 AM

Hello Folks!

Thank you, for all the good answers.

First of all, I formally have to make clear, that I do not know a sh*t about Lugers.

I wanted to own one, for very long time - but the prices are a little to high for me, so that's why I purchased this one

I would very much like to answer all of you, but in the end, you can read the different comments.

1: I don't know, if it's an artillery model - but because of the 1917, I found this group, for WW1's. How can I see, if it's an artillery model, or not?
2: The condition, for me to say, is quite okay. My girlfriend is at her family now, and her camera is much better than mine, so in the morning (sunday, tomorrow) I'll post a few good pics of the gun!

Edward Tinker · 04-16-2016, 11:14 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DonColt

...

1: I don't know, if it's an artillery model - but because of the 1917, I found this group, for WW1's. How can I see, if it's an artillery model, or not?

search function - an artillery is obvious, and no offense but if you are unsure what is an artillery and whats not, you should read more here

there are many variations - 4 inch - army - police - 6 inch navy - 8 inch artillery - but you need to know what you're looking at.

Buy books.....

04-19-2016, 06:47 PM	#1
ithacaartist Twice a Lifer Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Mar 2011 Location: Atop the highest hill in Schuyler County NY Posts: 3,410 Thanks: 7,585 Thanked 2,661 Times in 1,399 Posts	Don, You'll find Mauser's commemorative models occasionally. My impression is that since they originally sold at extra-high prices back then--I know a man whose father-in-law purchased one in the 80's and it was around $3k at that time--many of them were put away in the box to appreciate in value. I noticed a couple at auction a few weeks ago, and they had attained a level near $5k! There is nothing particularly special about most of them as far as I know, aside from a special series serial number, which may be a bit different, and the commemorative markings on them. Unless this is your collecting niche, you'll be paying extra for mere cosmetics. Their re-make of the 1902 Cartridge Counter is one that is rare and distinctive, even as a reproduction, and the price one would command reflects this. I won a M1900/2000 at auction not too long ago, for a nice price. It is one of the stainless steel guns made in Houston, Texas in the 1990s, but with a black finish, a special serial #, and commemorative engraved text. I have shot it a few times, but even though its parts are not numbered to match, they are even more difficult to find than parts for originals, so I avoid pushing its limits... __________________ "... Liberty is the seed and soil, the air and light, the dew and rain of progress, love and joy."-- Robert Greene Ingersoll 1894

04-20-2016, 08:40 AM	#2
DonVoigt User Join Date: Apr 2015 Location: near Charlotte NC Posts: 4,681 Thanks: 1,443 Thanked 4,356 Times in 2,041 Posts	Don't these later pistols use some or many cast parts? While serviceable, would thye be "better"? Someone just asked me by PM, and I don't know the answer- as I don't own one of these late Mausers: Are the typical small parts numbered to match? __________________ 03man(Don Voigt); Luger student and collector. Looking for DWM side plate: 69 ; Dreyse 1907 pistol K.S. Gendarmerie

04-21-2016, 02:21 PM	#5
Dick Herman User Join Date: Apr 2006 Location: Texas Posts: 302 Thanks: 496 Thanked 356 Times in 138 Posts	Forgings versus castings is a very widely debated issue. Both methods of treating the base metals have positive results if properly applied. Modern steels are made with better alloying elements and more stringent quality control than years past. Many high quality firearms are made today with cast components. IMHO The Mauser Parabellums manufactured during the 1970s are better made than the ones made prior tto 1950. PS. I don't know if the Maurer Parabellums were forgings or castings. Last edited by Dick Herman; 04-21-2016 at 02:24 PM. Reason: Discaimer

04-16-2016, 10:39 AM	#8
DonColt User Join Date: Apr 2016 Location: Denmark Posts: 8 Thanks: 0 Thanked 4 Times in 4 Posts	Answers recording to post. :) Hello Folks! Thank you, for all the good answers. First of all, I formally have to make clear, that I do not know a sh*t about Lugers. I wanted to own one, for very long time - but the prices are a little to high for me, so that's why I purchased this one I would very much like to answer all of you, but in the end, you can read the different comments. 1: I don't know, if it's an artillery model - but because of the 1917, I found this group, for WW1's. How can I see, if it's an artillery model, or not? 2: The condition, for me to say, is quite okay. My girlfriend is at her family now, and her camera is much better than mine, so in the morning (sunday, tomorrow) I'll post a few good pics of the gun!

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05-16-2016, 06:07 PM	#7
jrwinter44 User Join Date: May 2016 Posts: 21 Thanks: 1 Thanked 2 Times in 2 Posts	Something I noticed in European gun shops was the prevalence of refinished handguns. Many of these were nicely done with minimal buffing but were priced about the same as guns with original finishes. To some I know, it is natural to refinish "unsightly" signs of wear and they don't understand why I wouldn't consider it.