New Army 9mm Ammo Specs

[mrerick]

Assuming that they use their own components and powder, you can look up all the powders that Winchester offers on the Hodgdon site.

https://www.hodgdonreloading.com/data/pistol


None of these powders at their max load approach 1,300 FPS in a 115gn projectile.

This is more of a sub-machine gun load than a pistol load. Similar to "NATO" power... They quote pressure 15% higher than standard velocity 9mm Luger for this new round.

NATO 9mm develops 36,500PSI pressure. Normal 9mm is 34,100 PSI (CIP standards).

Reference to the SAAMI standards show that this round is above _+P loadings...

https://saami.org/wp-content/uploads...sting-Copy.pdf

Here's the Winchester site for the round with a picture of the box:

https://winchester.com/Products/Ammu...uty-/WIN9MHSCL

And discussion of the new M1152 round:

https://www.guns.com/news/2019/11/12...ctive-duty-9mm

[gunbugs]

Most, if not all of the major ammunition manufacturers do not use the commonly available "cannister" powders. They buy bulk lots from the powder makers, and tailor the loads to what powder they have bought. They can specify a certain type, ball, flake, extruded, with a preferred burning rate, but will have to "work up" a load depending on the particular characteristics of the powder received. In a nutshell, they aren't using the powders we use. The cannister powders we buy are kept to very tight specifications, so if we buy a pound of Reloader 15 today, and another pound of Reloader 15 five years from now, it'll be very close to the same. The ammo makers don't buy 100 pounds at a time, they buy a ton or 2 at a time. They are oftentimes using powders we can't get.

On a side note, years ago when I was shooting IPSC, I was using a S&W 559 9mm. (Held more bullets, you know). I was loading 6.2 gr of Unique and a magnum primer with a Speer 125 gr JSP, and getting 1270fps over a chronograph. It made "major" on the IPSC power scale. I'm pretty sure it would beat up most guns, but the old S&W just ate that stuff up. It was the 9mm load that would clear a bowling pin off the table. I shot thousands of rounds through that gun, still have it today.

[Kyrie]

Originally Posted by mrerick

Assuming that they use their own components and powder, you can look up all the powders that Winchester offers on the Hodgdon site.

https://www.hodgdonreloading.com/data/pistol


None of these powders at their max load approach 1,300 FPS in a 115gn projectile.

This is more of a sub-machine gun load than a pistol load. Similar to "NATO" power... They quote pressure 15% higher than standard velocity 9mm Luger for this new round.

NATO 9mm develops 36,500PSI pressure. Normal 9mm is 34,100 PSI (CIP standards).

Reference to the SAAMI standards show that this round is above _+P loadings...

https://saami.org/wp-content/uploads...sting-Copy.pdf

Here's the Winchester site for the round with a picture of the box:

https://winchester.com/Products/Ammu...uty-/WIN9MHSCL

And discussion of the new M1152 round:

https://www.guns.com/news/2019/11/12...ctive-duty-9mm

Respectfully suggest a great deal of caution with this kind of comparison.

Caveat 1:
There is really no such thing as “sub-machinegun ammunition”, as such. Sub-machineguns are just fully automatic firearms that fire a pistol cartridge. Countries that field sub-machineguns and pistols don’t have different types of cartridges for each.

Caveat 2:
There is no such thing as a single NATO standard 9x19 load. Different NATO signatories load their ammunition (pistol or rifle) to whatever standards they feel best meets their military goals.

Caveat 3:
CIP and SAMMI chamber pressures are measured using different methodologies and procedures and cannot be meaningfully compared.

Caveat 4:
Military ammunition is not subject to commercial laws, is usually made to perform to military standards, and may or may not be pressure tested using commercial policies, procedures or methods. This means that any extant published pressure data for military ammunition is irreconcilable with published pressures for commercial ammunition.

Caveat 5:
While chamber pressures and muzzle velocities are related, that relationship is neither direct nor linear. Higher chamber pressures don’t always result in higher muzzle velocities. Lower chamber pressures don’t always result in lower muzzle velocities.