Fiocchi 9MM FMJ-FP COMBATAvailable

[G.T.]

Hi Bob, For my Numrich Drum testing, I have been experimenting with American Eagle 124 grain ball, which lists specs as to very close to NATO loadings from other manufactures? (actually exceeds WW 124 gr. NATO marked ammo???) I've been having some positive results with this ammo on board! It doesn't seem to recoil as does NATO or +P so I question as to whether or not it is?...
Can you tell me anything about the American Eagle 124 grain ball?... Is it a Luger killer, or good stuff?.. ... Thanks, til..lat'r...GT

[Sieger]

Originally Posted by G.T.

Hi Bob, For my Numrich Drum testing, I have been experimenting with American Eagle 124 grain ball, which lists specs as to very close to NATO loadings from other manufactures? (actually exceeds WW 124 gr. NATO marked ammo???) I've been having some positive results with this ammo on board! It doesn't seem to recoil as does NATO or +P so I question as to whether or not it is?...
Can you tell me anything about the American Eagle 124 grain ball?... Is it a Luger killer, or good stuff?.. ... Thanks, til..lat'r...GT

Hi,

GT, always a great pleasure!

The NATO Cross in Circle ammo (NATO Proofed Ammo) is the +P ammo I referenced above. Winchester sells this exact ammo to the public as..."9mm NATO" This is to be avoided.

Your American Eagle 124 grain ball ammo should be loaded to modern commercial 9mm Luger specs. These, will, again, likely exceed the original German Army loading, but by much less than the NATO loading.

One of the secrets to getting perfect function from a Luger is medium/slow burning powder. Modern commercial ammo is generally loaded hotter and with much faster burning powder than the original DWM loading.

The ultimate answer is to hand load!

I hope this helps!

Sieger

The Fiocchi Combat, I reference above, has worked great for me!

.

[Kyrie]

Originally Posted by Sieger

--- snip ---
The NATO Cross in Circle ammo (NATO Proofed Ammo)
--- snip ---

Points of order, no disrespect intended.

The cross in a circle indicates only that the ammunition is of a type acceptable to NATO.

NATO does not proof ammunition or firearms. NATO is a political treaty, and its signatories may or may not honor the terms of that treaty.

There is no such thing as a "NATO load". Each NATO signatory is a sovereign nation and uses whatever ammunition, loaded to whatever standard they set, in whatever firearm they choose.

Chamber pressure cannot be deduced from muzzle velocity.

Hobby chronographs are not calibrated to any given standard, nor can the owner do a valid recalibration. They are effectively toys, and don't produce velocity readings that can be meaningfully compared to velocity readings produced by any other chronograph.

[Sieger]

Originally Posted by Kyrie

Points of order, no disrespect intended.

The cross in a circle indicates only that the ammunition is of a type acceptable to NATO.

NATO does not proof ammunition or firearms. NATO is a political treaty, and its signatories may or may not honor the terms of that treaty.

There is no such thing as a "NATO load". Each NATO signatory is a sovereign nation and uses whatever ammunition, loaded to whatever standard they set, in whatever firearm they choose.

Hi,

Please cite your sources.

What does acceptable to NATO mean?

Per the United States Army Technical Manual on Service Ammo, I cite above, acceptable U.S. 9mm NATO service ammo is listed as a 121 grain bullet at 1,260 fps, as shot from an M9 Service pistol. Powder and charge weights are also listed. Obviously, these standards may have changed over the years.

This is in the +P range for regular commercial ammo.

What is actually in the treaty concerning standardization of members' ammo, I do not know.

It seems a bit futile to me to standardize on a caliber while ignoring the performance requirements of same, given the range of weapons designed for its possible usage.


Sieger

[G.T.]

It looks to me, that any 124 gr. factory load UNDER 1200 ft per second, is fine.... I didn't look at the standard 115, but would think there is a bridge to cross there ae well!
Now, +P was definitely a BIG step up in velocity and I would suppose all other factors that would cause some Luger issues from too much use??
The NATO listings were, from what I could see, in a range between the two?... Soooo, as a total lack of experience guy, I would NOT shoot anything labeled NATO or/and NEVER shoot +P in my Luger! Basically, I'm just looking for stuff that works, is consistent, and reliable... best to all, til...lat'r...GT

[Sieger]

Originally Posted by Kyrie

Hobby chronographs are not calibrated to any given standard, nor can the owner do a valid recalibration. They are effectively toys, and don't produce velocity readings that can be meaningfully compared to velocity readings produced by any other chronograph.

Hi,

Modern chronographs are certainly not priced as toys.

Does anyone here have specific performance test data on the various brands?


Sieger