I Give Up on the P08

[Michael Zeleny]

Originally Posted by Sieger

Typically the "Luger Jam" is not an ejection problem, but rather, a hang-up with the next round stuck partially up the feed ramp. Is this your problem?

Your extractor spring could be too weak, but not in a dozen different pistols.

That may well be the typical issue, but in my case the problem is clearly an instance of short-stroking suggestive of excessive mainspring rate even with a 36 pound spring in place.

[Sieger]

Originally Posted by Michael Zeleny

That may well be the typical issue, but in my case the problem is clearly an instance of short-stroking suggestive of excessive mainspring rate even with a 36 pound spring in place.

Mike:

Please take a look at the specs. of the ammo you are shooting, as what you are suggesting as the problem seems almost impossible to me, given the "hotness" of modern 9 mm ammo.

Original DWM specs.: 123 grain bullet at 1,076 fps.

WWB specs.: 115 grain bullet at 1,190 fps.

NATO Military spec.: 121 grain bullet at 1,260 fps.

What you are suggesting as the problem should be just the opposite, that being, that hotter ammo should need a heavier spring, not a lighter one. Make sense?

Thanks!


Sieger

[Michael Zeleny]

Originally Posted by Sieger

Dave:

Please take a look at the specs. of the ammo you are shooting, as what you are suggesting as the problem seems almost impossible to me, given the "hotness" of modern 9 mm ammo.

Original DWM specs.: 123 grain bullet at 1,076 fps.

WWB specs.: 115 grain bullet at 1,190 fps.

NATO Military spec.: 121 grain bullet at 1,260 fps.

What you are suggesting as the problem should be just the opposite, that being, that hotter ammo should need a heavier spring, not a lighter one. Make sense?

Thanks!


Sieger

First off, I am not Dave. Secondly, the Luger toggle action reciprocates in proportion to the bullet's momentum, not its muzzle energy. That's why WWB works so well with the original spring rates -- for everyone else, but not for me.

[Sieger]

Originally Posted by Michael Zeleny

First off, I am not Dave. Secondly, the Luger toggle action reciprocates in proportion to the bullet's momentum, not its muzzle energy. That's why WWB works so well with the original spring rates -- for everyone else, but not for me.

Mike:

Sorry I screwed-up your first name, but these things just happen sometimes.

The figures I quoted above are not the muzzle energy of the bullets, but rather, their velocity.

I'm very sorry, but I don't agree with you, as NATO spec. ammo will peen the heck out of the back of your breach block, whereas, proper spec. ammo, will not. Obviously, the breach block is moving much faster with the NATO spec. ammo and with much more rearward force.

Given the same weight bullet, as you add more velocity to the bullet, the momentum of that bullet increases accordingly.


Sieger

[Michael Zeleny]

Originally Posted by Sieger

I'm very sorry, but I don't agree with you, as NATO spec. ammo will peen the heck out of the back of your breach block, whereas, proper spec. ammo, will not. Obviously, the breach block is moving faster with the NATO spec. ammo and with much more rearward force.

You aren't disagreeing with me. If you do the math, NATO spec ammo has about 20% more momentum than the original DWM loading, whereas the momentum of WWB is approximately its equal.

[Sieger]

Originally Posted by Michael Zeleny

You aren't disagreeing with me. If you do the math, NATO spec ammo has about 20% more momentum than the original DWM loading, whereas the momentum of WWB is approximately its equal.

Mike:

I've been looking, for thirty years, in original period German materials, from the 1920s through 1950s, and have never found a hotter load, in 123 grain configuration, than the 1,076 fps. load discussed above.

I believe the existance of the famous "German hotter load", needed to properly function a 9 mm Luger, is nothing more than a constantly repeated myth, with no basis in verifiable fact whatsoever, and a very distructive one at that!

Yes, armor piercing "hotter loads" were made for the MP-38 and MP-40, with much lighter bullets and of iron core construction for better performance, but these were restricted for pistol usage (most, if not all of them, having steel lacered cases, etc.).

If any of our members can provide me with verifiabe German source documentation to prove otherwise, I'd really like to get a copy of it.

As to modern NATO spec. ammo, I value my Lugers too much as to ruin them, over time, by shooting such loads, as these are, indeed, +P loads.


Sieger