History of Police Safety Sear Installation

Edward Tinker · 04-02-2012, 05:37 PM

Things are not as simple as lugers went from WW1 to the police or army.

Some were placed into storage, some destroyed, some went to the army, some to the police. Many were issued years after they were put into storage (and had been hidden from the allied forces).

The 1920 is a gov't marking, and is coincidental for being on a police luger. Not all lugers received the 1920 stamping, officers who owned lugers did not receive unit stamps or the 1920 marking, and those lugers hidden by the military may or may not have received the marking.

There are good books that talk about the safety installs and you can do searches on the forums about them.....

If your top does not match the bottom, then it is not correct. If for some reason it had been 'swapped' out before the retrofit, then it would have been matched up then. Lugers did not leave the peace time armory without the gun being all matched.

Ed

jags · 04-02-2012, 06:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Edward Tinker

Some were placed into storage, some destroyed, some went to the army, some to the police. Many were issued years after they were put into storage (and had been hidden from the allied forces).

So that answers my question about what could have happened after WWI ended. They where probably stamped and issued to the police after the war and could have been in storage, or not, for some time before being issued.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Edward Tinker

If your top does not match the bottom, then it is not correct. If for some reason it had been 'swapped' out before the retrofit, then it would have been matched up then. Lugers did not leave the peace time armory without the gun being all matched.

That answers part of question 3. They would not refit the pistol and then send it out with mismatched numbers.

What about the remaining questions. Any insight?

3. Would the gun have the sear safety installed and then have the barrel/extension reblued at the same time? Why was the rebluing neccessary?

4. If these guns where recalled from police forces and already had the police markings, how did they insure they got back to the same police force after the refit?

5. What arms did the police forces use during the time when their weapons had been recalled for the refit?

Plus one new question:

6. If they always made sure that the pistols had correct and matching numbers before they were dispatched, how and why did so many of these Lugers end up in America with mismatching numbers?

Again any help with these basic questions would be appreciated. I have been searching this forum and the rest of the internet but haven't been able to find much "general" information regarding these questions.

Thanks again!!

Edward Tinker · 04-02-2012, 08:44 PM

see below
What about the remaining questions. Any insight?

3. Would the gun have the sear safety installed and then have the barrel/extension reblued at the same time? Why was the rebluing neccessary?
IT DEPENDS, IF THE GUN NEEDED A NEW BARREL, THEN A NEW BARREL WAS ADDED, IF IT RECEIVED A MAGAZINE SAFETY, IT NEEDED TO BE REBLUED. A FACTORY OR ARMORY SHOULD NOT BE CONFUSED WITH A USA GUNSMITH REBLUE (ONE WHO DOES NOT KNOW WHAT HE IS DOING, NOT SOME OF THE LUGER SMITHS HERE ON THE FORUM)
4. If these guns where recalled from police forces and already had the police markings, how did they insure they got back to the same police force after the refit?
US ARMS ROOMS SEND OFF GUNS TO THIS DAY AND GET THEM FIXED AND SENT BACK TO THE UNIT, JUST PROPER PAPERWORK...
5. What arms did the police forces use during the time when their weapons had been recalled for the refit?
THE OLDER REVOLVERS, OR SENT THEM IN BATCHES AT A TIME AND WERE USING SOMETHING ELSE, I AM NOT 100% POSITVE ABOUT THIS, COULD BE MANY FACTORS....
Plus one new question:

6. If they always made sure that the pistols had correct and matching numbers before they were dispatched, how and why did so many of these Lugers end up in America with mismatching numbers?
TO MAKE GUNS FOR SALE IN THE USA, MANY NON-WORKING GUNS WERE PUT TOGETHER TO GET THEM WORKING; THIS HAPPENED IN GERMANY, IN THE USA, OVERSEAS BEING SHIPPED HERE ETC. MANY, MANY REASONS THIS HAPPENED, IT SIMPLY DID. SOME WERE BY GI'S, BUT I BELIEVE MANY WERE BY DISTRIBUTORS TRYING TO GET WORKING GUNS.

jags · 04-02-2012, 09:07 PM

Edward,

Thank you for your great answers! That really helps to clear things up.

One thing though. You stated: IF IT RECEIVED A MAGAZINE SAFETY, IT NEEDED TO BE REBLUED.

Why would the barrel/extension need to be reblued after a magazine safety refit? I can understand it maybe needing rebluing after a sear safety refit as there is some working on the extension to fit the sear safety. Any other details on the procedure involved for the safety refits?

Also I presume that once the barrel/extension gets mismatched to a different frame, you can never know what year the frame came from. Or is there a way to date the frame without a matching year dated barrel?

Thanks again for all this great info. It's really helping to make the "Big Picture" a lot clearer!

04-02-2012, 05:37 PM	#1
Edward Tinker Super Moderator Eternal Lifer LugerForum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: North of Spokane, WA Posts: 15,980 Thanks: 2,079 Thanked 4,614 Times in 2,127 Posts	Things are not as simple as lugers went from WW1 to the police or army. Some were placed into storage, some destroyed, some went to the army, some to the police. Many were issued years after they were put into storage (and had been hidden from the allied forces). The 1920 is a gov't marking, and is coincidental for being on a police luger. Not all lugers received the 1920 stamping, officers who owned lugers did not receive unit stamps or the 1920 marking, and those lugers hidden by the military may or may not have received the marking. There are good books that talk about the safety installs and you can do searches on the forums about them..... If your top does not match the bottom, then it is not correct. If for some reason it had been 'swapped' out before the retrofit, then it would have been matched up then. Lugers did not leave the peace time armory without the gun being all matched. Ed __________________ Edward Tinker ************ Co-Author of Police Lugers - Co-Author of Simson Lugers Author of Veteran Bring Backs Vol I, Vol II, Vol III and Vol IV

04-02-2012, 08:44 PM	#3
Edward Tinker Super Moderator Eternal Lifer LugerForum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: North of Spokane, WA Posts: 15,980 Thanks: 2,079 Thanked 4,614 Times in 2,127 Posts	see below What about the remaining questions. Any insight? 3. Would the gun have the sear safety installed and then have the barrel/extension reblued at the same time? Why was the rebluing neccessary? IT DEPENDS, IF THE GUN NEEDED A NEW BARREL, THEN A NEW BARREL WAS ADDED, IF IT RECEIVED A MAGAZINE SAFETY, IT NEEDED TO BE REBLUED. A FACTORY OR ARMORY SHOULD NOT BE CONFUSED WITH A USA GUNSMITH REBLUE (ONE WHO DOES NOT KNOW WHAT HE IS DOING, NOT SOME OF THE LUGER SMITHS HERE ON THE FORUM) 4. If these guns where recalled from police forces and already had the police markings, how did they insure they got back to the same police force after the refit? US ARMS ROOMS SEND OFF GUNS TO THIS DAY AND GET THEM FIXED AND SENT BACK TO THE UNIT, JUST PROPER PAPERWORK... 5. What arms did the police forces use during the time when their weapons had been recalled for the refit? THE OLDER REVOLVERS, OR SENT THEM IN BATCHES AT A TIME AND WERE USING SOMETHING ELSE, I AM NOT 100% POSITVE ABOUT THIS, COULD BE MANY FACTORS.... Plus one new question: 6. If they always made sure that the pistols had correct and matching numbers before they were dispatched, how and why did so many of these Lugers end up in America with mismatching numbers? TO MAKE GUNS FOR SALE IN THE USA, MANY NON-WORKING GUNS WERE PUT TOGETHER TO GET THEM WORKING; THIS HAPPENED IN GERMANY, IN THE USA, OVERSEAS BEING SHIPPED HERE ETC. MANY, MANY REASONS THIS HAPPENED, IT SIMPLY DID. SOME WERE BY GI'S, BUT I BELIEVE MANY WERE BY DISTRIBUTORS TRYING TO GET WORKING GUNS. __________________ Edward Tinker ************ Co-Author of Police Lugers - Co-Author of Simson Lugers Author of Veteran Bring Backs Vol I, Vol II, Vol III and Vol IV

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04-02-2012, 09:07 PM	#4
jags User Join Date: Mar 2012 Posts: 32 Thanks: 4 Thanked 1 Time in 1 Post	Edward, Thank you for your great answers! That really helps to clear things up. One thing though. You stated: IF IT RECEIVED A MAGAZINE SAFETY, IT NEEDED TO BE REBLUED. Why would the barrel/extension need to be reblued after a magazine safety refit? I can understand it maybe needing rebluing after a sear safety refit as there is some working on the extension to fit the sear safety. Any other details on the procedure involved for the safety refits? Also I presume that once the barrel/extension gets mismatched to a different frame, you can never know what year the frame came from. Or is there a way to date the frame without a matching year dated barrel? Thanks again for all this great info. It's really helping to make the "Big Picture" a lot clearer!