First Luger - info & comments - New Photos added

lugerholsterrepair · 11-05-2010, 11:24 AM

Valentine..You are confusing assistance given to Erfurt by DWM with a return obligation to DWM by Erfurt. There can be no doubt that DWM assisted Erfurt with tooling setup , design blueprints and technical help with the effort to set up a Luger manufacturing line. Once this took place however there was no evident obligation on Erfurts part to supply anything to DWM. Erfurt manufactured Lugers to supply the German Army.
A contract implies you have an obligation and I suspect the only obligation Erfurt had was to pay DWM a royalty on every Luger produced so I guess you COULD say they were "under contract" to pay but not to provide Lugers to DWM.

Erfurt did certainly have their own standards and they were not as high as the private Co, DWM.

Jerry Burney

guns3545 · 11-05-2010, 12:24 PM

Jerry,

You are certainly on the right track here and your statements about contracts, etc. are certainly true.

I think everyone has to remember that DWM held the PATENTS for the design. Initially, they were the sole producers of the guns. In 1908, long after they had become a successful enterprise in their own right, the German Government granted them a contract to build X-number of guns.

As happened here in the USA when Colt received a contract to build the 1911 for the War Department, there was a rider that stipulated that Springfield Arsenal, (A USA entity similar in respect to Erfurt) would have the right to use the patented design to build 1911s after Colt had delivered so many guns. Thus Colt was rewarded for their R&D, etc, and the government would get as little piece of their own pie if they so chose to build 1911s for their own use.

While, I am not privy to the negotiations or contracts actually signed between DWM and the German Procurement Authorities in 1907/8, I am sure there was some such similar provision.

So Erfurt ended up with a production line, and as Springfield in the USA, and Waffenfabrik Bern in Switzerland, they evolved the design and produced their own brand of gun using their own tooling and procedures and standards.. If anyone doubts this, just look at the proofing of an Erfurt versus DWM.

Sorry for the long winded reply but the subject is very complicated.

John

11-05-2010, 11:24 AM	#1
lugerholsterrepair Moderator Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Arizona/Colorado Posts: 7,775 Thanks: 4,995 Thanked 3,134 Times in 1,439 Posts	Valentine..You are confusing assistance given to Erfurt by DWM with a return obligation to DWM by Erfurt. There can be no doubt that DWM assisted Erfurt with tooling setup , design blueprints and technical help with the effort to set up a Luger manufacturing line. Once this took place however there was no evident obligation on Erfurts part to supply anything to DWM. Erfurt manufactured Lugers to supply the German Army. A contract implies you have an obligation and I suspect the only obligation Erfurt had was to pay DWM a royalty on every Luger produced so I guess you COULD say they were "under contract" to pay but not to provide Lugers to DWM. Erfurt did certainly have their own standards and they were not as high as the private Co, DWM. Jerry Burney __________________ Jerry Burney 11491 S. Guadalupe Drive Yuma AZ 85367-6182 lugerholsterrepair@earthlink.net 928 342-7583 (CO & AZ) Year Round 719 207-3331 (cell) "For those who Fight For It, Life has a flavor the protected will never know."

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11-05-2010, 12:24 PM	#2
guns3545 Lifer Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Florida Posts: 438 Thanks: 661 Thanked 493 Times in 219 Posts	Jerry, You are certainly on the right track here and your statements about contracts, etc. are certainly true. I think everyone has to remember that DWM held the PATENTS for the design. Initially, they were the sole producers of the guns. In 1908, long after they had become a successful enterprise in their own right, the German Government granted them a contract to build X-number of guns. As happened here in the USA when Colt received a contract to build the 1911 for the War Department, there was a rider that stipulated that Springfield Arsenal, (A USA entity similar in respect to Erfurt) would have the right to use the patented design to build 1911s after Colt had delivered so many guns. Thus Colt was rewarded for their R&D, etc, and the government would get as little piece of their own pie if they so chose to build 1911s for their own use. While, I am not privy to the negotiations or contracts actually signed between DWM and the German Procurement Authorities in 1907/8, I am sure there was some such similar provision. So Erfurt ended up with a production line, and as Springfield in the USA, and Waffenfabrik Bern in Switzerland, they evolved the design and produced their own brand of gun using their own tooling and procedures and standards.. If anyone doubts this, just look at the proofing of an Erfurt versus DWM. Sorry for the long winded reply but the subject is very complicated. John