Failure to lock back

rottenII · 05-08-2009, 06:42 PM

Gentleman, thanks for the reply. I will store your info away for a rainy day. As the pistol is all matching including the mag Ive decided NOT to shoot it anymore as to not press my luck. Hey, I figure the last mag I put through it fired all eight perfectly so I can sleep knowing it fired fine the last time I shot it right?

PhilOhio · 05-08-2009, 08:47 PM

John,

These holdopens look so simple, but there can be some off beat problems with them. Today I ran into a really strange new one.

I had pretty much eliminated my early holdopen problem, I thought, by correcting a weak holdopen spring. Then I began getting a premature holdopen after the seventh shot, about two out of three mags; never got it earlier. Really weird. Had to take the gun home and study that one, to see how the holdopen could possibly be actuated after round #7. It took awhile.

Turned out the original German magazine had the front part of the right feed lip bent upward only slightly too much. Feed still worked just fine, but after the seventh round was fired, the eighth round (all of them, actually) was being allowed to rise maybe .010" to .015" (a guess) too high. This allowed the follower button to sharply tap the holdopen upward only a few thousandths, but still enough so that, part of the time, it could catch the bolt;barely.

Each time it did so, all I had to do was pull and release the toggle and the last round would feed normally. This meant the holdopen spring was pulling the holdopen down to where it should have been. Strange, strange, strange.

You wouldn't think this could happen. But we have to remember how firing pins work in modern designs like the Beretta 92. The hammer only drives the rear of the pin a few thousandths before stopping against the rear of the slide face. This is a safety feature, so the pin does not rest against a primer when the hammer is down. But a full hammer impact is enough to drive, bounce, the pin very far forward against its spring and dent the primer. Apparently, the 8th cartridge in my magazine was rising fast enough under spring pressure to do something similar. Or else it was black magic.

w2ec · 06-29-2009, 08:41 AM

Probably not related to this original problem, but clearly related to a failure to lock open, is a situation I encountered with my newly acquired 1920 Commercial 30 Luger.

What I found is that the retainer pin on the follower button on my mag appears to be slightly too long. When the button is fully seated into the follower, there is still a significant gap between the button and the magazine body itself. The button is not flush, or even close to being flush, with the mag body. So when the magazine is inserted, the hold open lever actually fits into the space between the magazine body and the button, rather than contacting the top of the button and being pressed upwards to hold open the toggle. Short of machining the pin to shorten it, I don't see how to resolve the problem using the existing parts.

I'm also having other problems with this mag (weak spring, rough movement) so I've ordered some MecGars to use for shooting and will just keep the bad mag aside since it appears to be original to my Luger.

Mauser George · 06-29-2009, 08:57 AM

Pat:

I suggest you sell me this shooter Luger since it is defective!

Regards,

George

rottenII · 06-29-2009, 11:03 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mauser George

Pat:

I suggest you sell me this shooter Luger since it is defective!

Regards,

George

You are a true friend George!

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05-08-2009, 06:42 PM	#1
rottenII User Join Date: Mar 2009 Posts: 25 Thanks: 0 Thanked 2 Times in 2 Posts	Gentleman, thanks for the reply. I will store your info away for a rainy day. As the pistol is all matching including the mag Ive decided NOT to shoot it anymore as to not press my luck. Hey, I figure the last mag I put through it fired all eight perfectly so I can sleep knowing it fired fine the last time I shot it right?

05-08-2009, 08:47 PM	#2
PhilOhio User Join Date: Apr 2009 Location: Ohio Posts: 145 Thanks: 5 Thanked 17 Times in 14 Posts	John, These holdopens look so simple, but there can be some off beat problems with them. Today I ran into a really strange new one. I had pretty much eliminated my early holdopen problem, I thought, by correcting a weak holdopen spring. Then I began getting a premature holdopen after the seventh shot, about two out of three mags; never got it earlier. Really weird. Had to take the gun home and study that one, to see how the holdopen could possibly be actuated after round #7. It took awhile. Turned out the original German magazine had the front part of the right feed lip bent upward only slightly too much. Feed still worked just fine, but after the seventh round was fired, the eighth round (all of them, actually) was being allowed to rise maybe .010" to .015" (a guess) too high. This allowed the follower button to sharply tap the holdopen upward only a few thousandths, but still enough so that, part of the time, it could catch the bolt;barely. Each time it did so, all I had to do was pull and release the toggle and the last round would feed normally. This meant the holdopen spring was pulling the holdopen down to where it should have been. Strange, strange, strange. You wouldn't think this could happen. But we have to remember how firing pins work in modern designs like the Beretta 92. The hammer only drives the rear of the pin a few thousandths before stopping against the rear of the slide face. This is a safety feature, so the pin does not rest against a primer when the hammer is down. But a full hammer impact is enough to drive, bounce, the pin very far forward against its spring and dent the primer. Apparently, the 8th cartridge in my magazine was rising fast enough under spring pressure to do something similar. Or else it was black magic.

06-29-2009, 08:41 AM	#3
w2ec User Join Date: Apr 2009 Location: Apalachin, NY Posts: 12 Thanks: 6 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Probably not related to this original problem, but clearly related to a failure to lock open, is a situation I encountered with my newly acquired 1920 Commercial 30 Luger. What I found is that the retainer pin on the follower button on my mag appears to be slightly too long. When the button is fully seated into the follower, there is still a significant gap between the button and the magazine body itself. The button is not flush, or even close to being flush, with the mag body. So when the magazine is inserted, the hold open lever actually fits into the space between the magazine body and the button, rather than contacting the top of the button and being pressed upwards to hold open the toggle. Short of machining the pin to shorten it, I don't see how to resolve the problem using the existing parts. I'm also having other problems with this mag (weak spring, rough movement) so I've ordered some MecGars to use for shooting and will just keep the bad mag aside since it appears to be original to my Luger.

06-29-2009, 08:57 AM	#4
Mauser George User Join Date: Sep 2008 Location: New York Posts: 88 Thanks: 0 Thanked 2 Times in 2 Posts	Pat: I suggest you sell me this shooter Luger since it is defective! Regards, George