Trying to find info on new luger purchase

sheepherder · 03-25-2009, 11:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dtu2179

Anybody know a good source of 7.65 brass?

At the risk of starting a flame war...For my 7.63mm Mauser and 7.65mm Lugers, I use new cut-down .223 Remington unprimed brass cases (not 5.56mm Military). Run the cut cases through the 7.65 Luger ("30 Luger" in RCBS) reloading dies to form the bottleneck case.

The .223 Rem is about ~.010" smaller diameter at the base than 30 Luger, but fire-forming with a light load will expand the cases to fit your chamber.

Just my $.02...YMMV...I am not responsible for any blah blah...

G.T. · 03-25-2009, 11:45 PM

Just a quick question... why not the 5.56 mil stuff? All it seems you'd have to do is anneal it?? I'm not a reloader, so I plead ignorance... Best to you, til...lat'r...GT

Chris from Minnesota · 03-26-2009, 12:55 AM

I believe (if not correct me) the 5.56 brass has thicker case walls then .223 Remington same goes for .308 rem. brass and 7.62 NATO brass. .223 rem is not as hot as NATO spec ammo, .223 rem. runs at about 3000 fps where 5.56 NATO runs at about 3250 fps in my AR 15 20" barrel.

You can tell by the head stamp on the case, NATO will have the circle with a cross in it. In a combat situation all NATO country's that run across another country's ammo that find the circle with a cross in it know it's good ammo. Also SAMMI states that firing 5.56mm in a .223 rem. chamber is an unsafe ammunition chamber combination.

My AR 15's love XM193 from Lake City that's box and sold by Federal, good stuff but expensive. I also love the 5.56 brass for reloading for my AR 15's it was plentiful but harder to find now.

Just my .02

sheepherder · 03-26-2009, 07:49 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chris from Minnesota

I believe (if not correct me) the 5.56 brass has thicker case walls then .223 Remington same goes for .308 rem. brass and 7.62 NATO brass.

Chris is correct. I was introduced to this little-publicized fact while making my own 44 Automag cases from .308/7.62 brass...(I had one of the High-Standard 44 Automags w/ both 357 Automag and 44 Automag barrels)...I was getting a lot of case failures while forming, almost all military brass (the others were much-used commercial brass). Also, the military brass had to be neck reamed; the commercial didn't - this was the tipoff. 44 bullets could be seated with no neck reaming in commercial brass cases (after cutting to length).

I would expect the military brass is made with thicker walls intentionally, to lessen the chance of a blowout...while commercially, the manufacturers want to hold costs down as much as possible...

Case wall thickness (*not* neck thickness) only seems to be an issue for those of us concerned with 'cartridge conversion'...

BTW: I am not stating that you won't have to neck ream .223 commercial...only that you may not need to...

Off -topic = I can recall back when only Berdan primed cases were available for the 7.63 Mauser and 7.65 Luger, there were all kinds of ways to remove the spent primers...some really crude...("fill case with water and use a tight fitting dowel to hydraulically eject the primer")...

Disclaimer: I am not an expert on any of this, these are just my observations from practical experience...

Lessee...What was this thread about?...

dtu2179 · 03-26-2009, 10:30 AM

I sent the dealer an email last night. No response yet. Here is a copy of the email message sent to him:

From: "Duane Urban" <dtu2179@comcast.net>
To: <email@firearmsbroker.com>
Subject:
Date: Wednesday, March 25, 2009 11:33 PM

Hello, I bought the German Luger from you at the York PA gun show on 2/22/09. When I purchased the gun you told me that it had been manufactured between 1940-1942. Research into this gun with the assistance of the members of Luger.com has shown that this is not true. The gun was actually manufactured between 1909 and 1914. In addition, you advertised the gun as 9mm, which is what went on the state police paperwork here in Maryland, this was also untrue. The gun is actually chambered in 7.65 Luger. Please respond back to this email and address these issues.

Duane Urban

dtu2179 · 03-26-2009, 10:33 AM

For anyone who is interested, here is the dealers web site. Based on my recent experiance, this guy is NOT

someone I would do business with again. Just a warning for those in the PA area.

dtu2179 · 03-26-2009, 10:34 AM

http://www.firearmsbroker.com/homepage.htm

03-25-2009, 11:45 PM	#2
G.T. Lifer Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Chandler Arizona Posts: 3,542 Thanks: 1,342 Thanked 3,750 Times in 1,021 Posts	brass... Just a quick question... why not the 5.56 mil stuff? All it seems you'd have to do is anneal it?? I'm not a reloader, so I plead ignorance... Best to you, til...lat'r...GT

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03-26-2009, 12:55 AM	#3
Chris from Minnesota User Join Date: Feb 2009 Posts: 58 Thanks: 3 Thanked 1 Time in 1 Post	I believe (if not correct me) the 5.56 brass has thicker case walls then .223 Remington same goes for .308 rem. brass and 7.62 NATO brass. .223 rem is not as hot as NATO spec ammo, .223 rem. runs at about 3000 fps where 5.56 NATO runs at about 3250 fps in my AR 15 20" barrel. You can tell by the head stamp on the case, NATO will have the circle with a cross in it. In a combat situation all NATO country's that run across another country's ammo that find the circle with a cross in it know it's good ammo. Also SAMMI states that firing 5.56mm in a .223 rem. chamber is an unsafe ammunition chamber combination. My AR 15's love XM193 from Lake City that's box and sold by Federal, good stuff but expensive. I also love the 5.56 brass for reloading for my AR 15's it was plentiful but harder to find now. Just my .02

03-26-2009, 10:30 AM	#5
dtu2179 User Join Date: Feb 2009 Posts: 38 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	I sent the dealer an email last night. No response yet. Here is a copy of the email message sent to him: From: "Duane Urban" <dtu2179@comcast.net> To: <email@firearmsbroker.com> Subject: Date: Wednesday, March 25, 2009 11:33 PM Hello, I bought the German Luger from you at the York PA gun show on 2/22/09. When I purchased the gun you told me that it had been manufactured between 1940-1942. Research into this gun with the assistance of the members of Luger.com has shown that this is not true. The gun was actually manufactured between 1909 and 1914. In addition, you advertised the gun as 9mm, which is what went on the state police paperwork here in Maryland, this was also untrue. The gun is actually chambered in 7.65 Luger. Please respond back to this email and address these issues. Duane Urban

03-26-2009, 10:33 AM	#6
dtu2179 User Join Date: Feb 2009 Posts: 38 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	For anyone who is interested, here is the dealers web site. Based on my recent experiance, this guy is NOT someone I would do business with again. Just a warning for those in the PA area.

03-26-2009, 10:34 AM	#7
dtu2179 User Join Date: Feb 2009 Posts: 38 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	http://www.firearmsbroker.com/homepage.htm