Interesting Post WW1 Commercial

ithacaartist · 05-15-2020, 01:11 AM

There are serial numbers in the Commercial data base that exceed 94k. Post-WWI assembly of Commercial Lugers involved scraping all possible parts together, IIRC, so the long frame with unrelieved sear bar and stock lug and without grip safety may not be so anachronistic or unexpected.

My impression is that the dimensional difference between short and long frames would probably exceed the entire extent of the flange.

Yakman · 05-16-2020, 02:20 AM

ithacaartist, the difference in length between the long and short frame is 2m/m.

I'm going to respectfully disagree with you that post WWI assembly of Commercial Lugers involved scraping all possible parts together, at least for DWM in respect to the five digit serial numbered 1923 Commercials. I believe they are of new manufacture. Except for markings and a new barrel they are the same as a 1914 standard military.

At wars end DWM was still at full production. There was a short pause but, they didn't have to start trying to scrounge up all the surplus Lugers, and of their own manufacture at that, they could get to try to stay in business. Germany was not defeated, they negotiated an armistice and agreed to the terms of a treaty. Germany was never occupied. They were in dire straights but, they were not down and out.

When I say new manufacture I'm not saying everything fresh out of the foundry or fresh off the lathe. Some of that, barrels for sure but, a lot of new old stock. DWM's new old stock was still being used by Mauser in instances all through their production and into 1945 and 1946, when they continued putting Lugers together for the French. The LP08 barrels and rear sights were of WW1 DWM manufacture.

I can't think of ever seeing a five digit 1923 Commercial other than having a 98m/m barrel in .30 Luger. I've seen two Safe/Loaded with six inch barrels but, the barrels on both were un-numbered and stamped GERMANY. That pretty much indicates a replaced barrel to me. Both guns were marked GERMANY on the frame above the trigger guard and they both were C/N proofed. Since they had been pressure tested, that, to me, says they had had other barrels before the six inch ones.

I'm not definitively saying no such thing as a 1923 Commercial Navy or Artillery in the post WW1 Commercial serial range exists but, I am saying I'd need to see at least a good photograph to be convinced.

For the "1923 Commercial" subject of this thread, I say it's way out of character for a 1923 Commercial in both its serial number and configuration.

Jack

05-15-2020, 01:11 AM	#1
ithacaartist Twice a Lifer Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Mar 2011 Location: Atop the highest hill in Schuyler County NY Posts: 3,419 Thanks: 7,605 Thanked 2,672 Times in 1,403 Posts	There are serial numbers in the Commercial data base that exceed 94k. Post-WWI assembly of Commercial Lugers involved scraping all possible parts together, IIRC, so the long frame with unrelieved sear bar and stock lug and without grip safety may not be so anachronistic or unexpected. My impression is that the dimensional difference between short and long frames would probably exceed the entire extent of the flange. __________________ "... Liberty is the seed and soil, the air and light, the dew and rain of progress, love and joy."-- Robert Greene Ingersoll 1894

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05-16-2020, 02:20 AM	#2
Yakman User Join Date: Feb 2015 Location: Indiana Posts: 119 Thanks: 880 Thanked 81 Times in 40 Posts	ithacaartist, the difference in length between the long and short frame is 2m/m. I'm going to respectfully disagree with you that post WWI assembly of Commercial Lugers involved scraping all possible parts together, at least for DWM in respect to the five digit serial numbered 1923 Commercials. I believe they are of new manufacture. Except for markings and a new barrel they are the same as a 1914 standard military. At wars end DWM was still at full production. There was a short pause but, they didn't have to start trying to scrounge up all the surplus Lugers, and of their own manufacture at that, they could get to try to stay in business. Germany was not defeated, they negotiated an armistice and agreed to the terms of a treaty. Germany was never occupied. They were in dire straights but, they were not down and out. When I say new manufacture I'm not saying everything fresh out of the foundry or fresh off the lathe. Some of that, barrels for sure but, a lot of new old stock. DWM's new old stock was still being used by Mauser in instances all through their production and into 1945 and 1946, when they continued putting Lugers together for the French. The LP08 barrels and rear sights were of WW1 DWM manufacture. I can't think of ever seeing a five digit 1923 Commercial other than having a 98m/m barrel in .30 Luger. I've seen two Safe/Loaded with six inch barrels but, the barrels on both were un-numbered and stamped GERMANY. That pretty much indicates a replaced barrel to me. Both guns were marked GERMANY on the frame above the trigger guard and they both were C/N proofed. Since they had been pressure tested, that, to me, says they had had other barrels before the six inch ones. I'm not definitively saying no such thing as a 1923 Commercial Navy or Artillery in the post WW1 Commercial serial range exists but, I am saying I'd need to see at least a good photograph to be convinced. For the "1923 Commercial" subject of this thread, I say it's way out of character for a 1923 Commercial in both its serial number and configuration. Jack