Luger lust, eye candy

[alanint]

I never noticed the very pronounced toggle stop at the rear of the .45 pistols before.

[sheepherder]

Originally Posted by alanint

I never noticed the very pronounced toggle stop at the rear of the .45 pistols before.

...And the accompanying wear of the bluing where it hits the frame...

It's been fired! Not as much wear as I would have thought, for a Test Trials pistol...

An interesting example of engineering. I have to wonder if this was just a scaled-up stopgap to satisfy the US Military Trials specs, or if there was any planning, calculating, and testing beforehand...

How did the 45 Luger perform in the testing??? I've never read any report on it/them...

Did Luger (or DWM, whoever) ever comment on why the 45 Luger was never offered commercially???

[Ron Wood]

Originally Posted by postino

It's been fired! Not as much wear as I would have thought, for a Test Trials pistol...

This gun was not used in the Test Trials, in fact neither of the two existing guns (the Norton and the Aberman) were part of the trials.

In the 1959 revised edition of "Luger Variations" by Harry Jones there is a color frontpiece of this gun. Under the illustration Harry wrote this caption:

"It is in fine condition; "GL" monogramed and has no serial number. Will it operate? In 1960, Norman Lee, Harry and Anne Jones fired this Luger 150 times; it functioned perfectly! Another .45 Caliber Luger is illustrated on page 108 [my (Ron) note: the Aberman gun]; contrary to constantly fabricated stories, there are only two known examples of thie impressive, over-sized Model."

Originally Posted by postino

How did the 45 Luger perform in the testing??? I've never read any report on it/them...

Did Luger (or DWM, whoever) ever comment on why the 45 Luger was never offered commercially???

In all, nine .45 caliber handguns were submitted for the U.S. Test Trials: 6 semiautomatic pistols (Colt, Luger, Savage, Knoble, Bergmann and White-Merrill); and 3 revolvers (Colt, Smith & Wesson and Webley-Fosberry Automatic Revolver). A full account of the performance of each firearm was written up in the "Report of Board on Tests of Revolvers and Automatic Pistols" by the Chief of Ordnance and published by the Government Printing Office in 1907.

A total of 1022 rounds were fired through the Luger. Oddly, only 959 rounds were fired through the Colt and in many respects the Luger outperformed the Colt! However, the strength and simplicity (and no doubt the US manufacture!) of the Colt prevailed.

I know of no written account of why DWM did not pursue continued production of the .45 Luger. A combination of factors no doubt was involved. The .45 semi-auto cartridge was a new development, only beginning to be adopted in the U.S. and not likely to find world-wide use for some time. Also, DWM had just landed a huge contract with Germany for the P08 which more than occupied their full production capability. Shortly thereafter WWI certainly would have stifled any further consideration of .45 production.

[Ron-E]

About 10 years ago one of the gun magazines got to fire one of these .45 Lugers. Does anyone remember the magazine story or have a copy?

[Ron Wood]

Originally Posted by Ron-E

About 10 years ago one of the gun magazines got to fire one of these .45 Lugers. Does anyone remember the magazine story or have a copy?

More like almost 20 years ago!

The article was “We Shoot the Million $$ .45 Luger” and was in the June 1994 edition of “Guns & Ammo”. It was written by Garry James and is an account of the examination, photography and subsequent range firing on the Amberman .45 Luger that was the property of Michael Zomber at that time (the value of $1 Million was Zomber’s valuation!). An approximate total of 20 rounds were passed through the gun without malfunction, two into a bullet trap after the gun was initially cleaned and inspected and then about 18 more at the firing range. The conclusion was that the gun was easily capable of 1½ to two-inch groups at 25 yards.

[Ron-E]

Almost 20 years ago, time is not on my side.
Thanks to Ron Wood for the info and to "mrerick" for the link to Norton Art Foundation. The info from the link states there is a "GL" monogram on the rear of the rear toggle. Guess I will have to make another trip to see that in person!

[sheepherder]

Originally Posted by Ron Wood

The article was “We Shoot the Million $$ .45 Luger” and was in the June 1994 edition of “Guns & Ammo”. It was written by Garry James and is an account of the examination, photography and subsequent range firing on the Amberman .45 Luger that was the property of Michael Zomber at that time...

...???...Nobody wanted the June '94 G&A magazine that *was* on eBay???

I know that Ron must have a copy...

That's OK...I got it...

[GySgt1811]

If I recall correctly, Datig tells of two .45 Lugers being submitted for the test; one was shot out and destroyed by the testing, the other was never shot for the test and just left behind by Georg Luger when he left for home. Both were reported by Datig as having no serial numbers but each was stamped on the frame with the initials GL. I can't tell from the photos, but could this one have "GL" stamped on it"

Regards,

Gunny

[sheepherder]

Originally Posted by Ron Wood

In the 1959 revised edition of "Luger Variations" by Harry Jones there is a color frontpiece of this gun. Under the illustration Harry wrote this caption:

"It is in fine condition; "GL" monogramed and has no serial number...."

I have the Jones book, 1959, but not the revised edition...There is no color frontispiece (and no missing pages) but it does have a B&W pic on pg 108 and under comments on the facing page, Jones writes "Two of these Lugers, serials 1 and 2, were brought here in 1907 to be used as test weapons by the US Army...The specimen illustrated is serial number 2; serial 1 has not been found, nor has the prototype for these 45's..."

It is described as a model 1906, monogrammed GL on rear toggle link, unmarked center link, LOADED on extractor, serial on frame, no chamber/safety.receiver markings, and no proofs...

Also states that it was demonstrated by Georg Luger his own self...