1921 Weimar Army Luger

Edward Tinker · 07-06-2011, 09:33 AM

In ref to the Simson only comment, the contract was signed in 1924, first new made in 1925.

Prior to this DWM made lugers for the military and police, in the open until the IMKK (does that look right? this was the commission set up to oversee that the versailles treaty was being enforced. Keep in mind that in my opinion that the commission, especially the French made up the rules as they went along).

Around the early 20's (1922 / 1923) they raised hell with DWM and the German gov't and started to make only contract and commercial lugers (i.e. 7.65mm) although it is known that guns were siphoned off to the military and police.

This does bring up something I just read the other night; in Sturgess' book he states that there is a directive that 3,000 lugers were purchased new for the army in 1925 and another 3,000 in 1926. At first I thought this was a breakthrough comment of how many lugers Simson really made (it is assumed that less than a 1,000 were made by 1926; however, it is unlikely to me that you would have dated 1925 and 1926 lugers that didn't go into the 6,000 range (there are no documented Simson's after sn 700, as I own 701 and it is not dated, plus I have a large database of hundreds of guns after that with no date). So, obviously these lugers were procured from Simson AND DWM in my opinion.

Just some additional history that I wanted to throw out there and like Don and Ron, the Weimar period is a fascinating history lesson.

Ed

Don M · 07-06-2011, 11:12 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Edward Tinker

Around the early 20's (1922 / 1923) they raised hell with DWM and the German gov't and started to make only contract and commercial lugers (i.e. 7.65mm) although it is known that guns were siphoned off to the military and police.

While I have not been able to lay my hands on definitive documentation, considerable circumstantial evidence strongly suggests that the termination of DWM's production of 9-mm P08s for the police and military was a result of the IMKK's interpretation that pistols and revolvers with calibers greater than 8mm or barrels longer than 98mm (3-7/8") constituted "war material," the manufacture of which was restricted (not totally prohibited) by the Treaty. Rather than try to monitor several manufacturers of such war material, Simson was designated as the only approved manufacturer. This is why DWM began manufacturing only "commercial" Lugers in 7.65mm with 3-7/8" barrels until after the IMKK was disbanded in 1927.

The police were allowed to have handguns that fit the "war material" designation. Rather than purchase them from Simson during the period 1922-27, they apparently opted to buy commmercial DWMs and rebarrel them. Rebarreling was probably done by Simson until the PTV started doing it in 1927.

Edward Tinker · 07-06-2011, 11:18 AM

Don, your theory I believe is based on undocumented but real facts, and I have read enough information skirting the issue that I am in complete agreement with your theory (not that that is uncommon

)

07-06-2011, 09:33 AM	#1
Edward Tinker Super Moderator Eternal Lifer LugerForum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: North of Spokane, WA Posts: 15,986 Thanks: 2,083 Thanked 4,604 Times in 2,128 Posts	In ref to the Simson only comment, the contract was signed in 1924, first new made in 1925. Prior to this DWM made lugers for the military and police, in the open until the IMKK (does that look right? this was the commission set up to oversee that the versailles treaty was being enforced. Keep in mind that in my opinion that the commission, especially the French made up the rules as they went along). Around the early 20's (1922 / 1923) they raised hell with DWM and the German gov't and started to make only contract and commercial lugers (i.e. 7.65mm) although it is known that guns were siphoned off to the military and police. This does bring up something I just read the other night; in Sturgess' book he states that there is a directive that 3,000 lugers were purchased new for the army in 1925 and another 3,000 in 1926. At first I thought this was a breakthrough comment of how many lugers Simson really made (it is assumed that less than a 1,000 were made by 1926; however, it is unlikely to me that you would have dated 1925 and 1926 lugers that didn't go into the 6,000 range (there are no documented Simson's after sn 700, as I own 701 and it is not dated, plus I have a large database of hundreds of guns after that with no date). So, obviously these lugers were procured from Simson AND DWM in my opinion. Just some additional history that I wanted to throw out there and like Don and Ron, the Weimar period is a fascinating history lesson. Ed __________________ Edward Tinker ************ Co-Author of Police Lugers - Co-Author of Simson Lugers Author of Veteran Bring Backs Vol I, Vol II, Vol III and Vol IV

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07-06-2011, 11:18 AM	#3
Edward Tinker Super Moderator Eternal Lifer LugerForum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: North of Spokane, WA Posts: 15,986 Thanks: 2,083 Thanked 4,604 Times in 2,128 Posts	Don, your theory I believe is based on undocumented but real facts, and I have read enough information skirting the issue that I am in complete agreement with your theory (not that that is uncommon )