DWM Commercial 1911-1913 (?)

John Sabato · 09-01-2009, 10:34 AM

Here is a photo borrowed from another thread that will identify the location of the holdopen device. If yours doesn't have this part, it will not remain open after the last shot.

Pistol · 09-01-2009, 11:42 AM

John and Ron -

I'm almost certain it does not have the hold open. I'm going to post some photos to confirm. There is not evidence on the right side above the trigger either.

Pistol · 09-02-2009, 11:47 AM

I don't see a hold-open and no evidence of rework pin above the trigger

klaus 3338 · 09-02-2009, 02:02 PM

Pistol, have you ever heard of the Landau list? In 1914 all P08 should get the hold open and a new front size. All Prussian P08 got both, most of the P08 of the kingdom of Württemberg but none of the Bavarian Army. At that time the Great War started. I can´t say what happened with the P08 of Saxony.
The Bavarian Artillery depots had to enumerate all the P08 and send the list to the royal Bavarian Feldzeugmeisterei. (By the way: is there anyone who could translate if I would write in German? Often I´m missing the right words and so I do not write all that what I would write if I would write in German- terrible English- I know.) One of these lists is the (Bavarian) Landau list. The members of Stills forum will remember that I found five Lugers with the regiment marks on the list. On this list are enumerated some more than 2500 Lugers. AND NOW- there are many commercial Lugers listed which belonged to the officers of the Bavarian regiments of the Landau Artillery depot.
The number of your gun is 58739- listed there are in the Landau list for example following numbers which are very close to your pistol: 58735 (only 4 numbers of your gun); 58763, 58806, 58810, 58813, 58828 and 58851 (and there are many more).
I also picked up and observed here in Germany that it was the practice that the officers, who must pay for their own P08 with their own money, got Luger of the commercial production. It was the absolute exception if they got an Imperial accepted Luger.
Without any question was your Luger bought by a Bavarian officer.
I hope that you appreciate this information.

Best regards Klaus

Pistol · 09-02-2009, 05:57 PM

Klaus -
I very much appreciate your information and input as always. Klaus if you have much more info that is easier for you to type in German, please feel free do so. I can copy and paste your post, and then hit translate to English in a word document. I think(?)

Klaus-
Do you recall discussing the AWM 3-11 holster that came with this gun in the holster forum? You told me it was Bavarian and we discussed the regiments stamped on the holster. The german that submitted this gun said he was the Oberbürgermeister von München.

Please see the thread where you posted the photo of your grandfather in the holster thread.This is thread where we discussed the regiments.

Also, I found out that there was a .22 barell with this gun. Did the .22 barrel come later during the 1930-1940's, or were there .22 barrels during Imperial times?

klaus 3338 · 09-03-2009, 02:16 AM

Pistol, the Selbstladeeinstecklauf (S.E.L) in cal. 22 for the P08 was introduced on the 1. Oktober 1932 in the Army and apportioned by the "supply place" (Nachschubverbindungsstelle) Spandau. The older subcalibrebarrels in 4mm went back to the arsenals Spandau, Kassel and Königsberg.
The large wooden boxes were made until 1934 when the R.G. 34 (Reinigungsgerät 34) replaced the cleaning rods in cal. 22. Then came the small wooden boxes.

09-01-2009, 10:34 AM	#1
John Sabato Lifer Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: The Capital of the Free World Posts: 10,157 Thanks: 3,003 Thanked 2,311 Times in 1,099 Posts	Here is a photo borrowed from another thread that will identify the location of the holdopen device. If yours doesn't have this part, it will not remain open after the last shot. __________________ regards, -John S "...We hold these truths to be self-evident that ALL men are created EQUAL *and are endowed by their Creator* with certain UNALIENABLE* rights, and among these are life, LIBERTY, and the pursuit of happiness..."*

09-02-2009, 05:57 PM	#5
Pistol User Join Date: Jul 2009 Location: USA - TN Posts: 435 Thanks: 472 Thanked 223 Times in 102 Posts	Klaus - I very much appreciate your information and input as always. Klaus if you have much more info that is easier for you to type in German, please feel free do so. I can copy and paste your post, and then hit translate to English in a word document. I think(?) Klaus- Do you recall discussing the AWM 3-11 holster that came with this gun in the holster forum? You told me it was Bavarian and we discussed the regiments stamped on the holster. The german that submitted this gun said he was the Oberbürgermeister von München. Please see the thread where you posted the photo of your grandfather in the holster thread.This is thread where we discussed the regiments. Also, I found out that there was a .22 barell with this gun. Did the .22 barrel come later during the 1930-1940's, or were there .22 barrels during Imperial times? Last edited by Pistol; 02-23-2019 at 05:05 PM.

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09-01-2009, 11:42 AM	#2
Pistol User Join Date: Jul 2009 Location: USA - TN Posts: 435 Thanks: 472 Thanked 223 Times in 102 Posts	John and Ron - I'm almost certain it does not have the hold open. I'm going to post some photos to confirm. There is not evidence on the right side above the trigger either.

09-02-2009, 02:02 PM	#4
klaus 3338 User Join Date: Jun 2009 Location: Germany Posts: 526 Thanks: 0 Thanked 439 Times in 166 Posts	Pistol, have you ever heard of the Landau list? In 1914 all P08 should get the hold open and a new front size. All Prussian P08 got both, most of the P08 of the kingdom of Württemberg but none of the Bavarian Army. At that time the Great War started. I can´t say what happened with the P08 of Saxony. The Bavarian Artillery depots had to enumerate all the P08 and send the list to the royal Bavarian Feldzeugmeisterei. (By the way: is there anyone who could translate if I would write in German? Often I´m missing the right words and so I do not write all that what I would write if I would write in German- terrible English- I know.) One of these lists is the (Bavarian) Landau list. The members of Stills forum will remember that I found five Lugers with the regiment marks on the list. On this list are enumerated some more than 2500 Lugers. AND NOW- there are many commercial Lugers listed which belonged to the officers of the Bavarian regiments of the Landau Artillery depot. The number of your gun is 58739- listed there are in the Landau list for example following numbers which are very close to your pistol: 58735 (only 4 numbers of your gun); 58763, 58806, 58810, 58813, 58828 and 58851 (and there are many more). I also picked up and observed here in Germany that it was the practice that the officers, who must pay for their own P08 with their own money, got Luger of the commercial production. It was the absolute exception if they got an Imperial accepted Luger. Without any question was your Luger bought by a Bavarian officer. I hope that you appreciate this information. Best regards Klaus

09-03-2009, 02:16 AM	#6
klaus 3338 User Join Date: Jun 2009 Location: Germany Posts: 526 Thanks: 0 Thanked 439 Times in 166 Posts	Pistol, the Selbstladeeinstecklauf (S.E.L) in cal. 22 for the P08 was introduced on the 1. Oktober 1932 in the Army and apportioned by the "supply place" (Nachschubverbindungsstelle) Spandau. The older subcalibrebarrels in 4mm went back to the arsenals Spandau, Kassel and Königsberg. The large wooden boxes were made until 1934 when the R.G. 34 (Reinigungsgerät 34) replaced the cleaning rods in cal. 22. Then came the small wooden boxes.