How can I get my money back?

Lugerdoc · 08-21-2009, 10:10 AM

It would seem that LUGERMAN'S major problem is either taking on too many jobs or underestimating their delivery time. I never like to rush an artist. I'd rather let him do it right than do it fast. In the past, I've waited over 2 years for work by Morgan or Martz, but I did learn one thing, don't pay in full, until the job it done. I don't do restorations or any refinishing, but still find that some jobs just take longer than my original estimate, I thank those who have patience and just want the repairs done right. TH

junglejim · 08-21-2009, 07:00 PM

Hi Tom, I see from other posts that you have an excellent reputation. Reputation is in fact what is in question concerning Lugerman.......has nothing to do with patience in a long wait for quality products. I too have a number of Martz (P38 carbine, 1900 Luger carbine, baby Luger, P-38 target pistol), Morgan restoration (Borchardt), Prudhomme engraved piece (1906 Swiss), etc., and never questioned the time it took for quality. What I do question in Lugerman's situation is a promised delivery of 6 weeks. Not knowing the gunsmith, not knowing that he does this part time, not knowing that he was in the midst of a federal audit, I contracted with him. When all the excuses had settled, after numerous outright lies to stall me off, with the threat of lawsuit, on the "eleventh hour" he promised me the gun which I just received. Promised in 6 weeks......delivered after 44 weeks. I wasn't being impatient..I was concerned that I was being scammed. He wanted and received half the money up front and wanted it overnighted to him. That should have sent up red flags, but he has a near perfect record with Gunbroker. He said it normally took a month to complete a luger carbine. Is it no wonder that I became concerned that I had lost my money when many months had passed? Of course, anyone having delivery troubles by the time they wish to leave a negative their time has run out with Gunbroker. No credibility. The point being, not the wait....if he had been up front and indicated it could take a year or more....I wouldn't have been worried, and would have actually been please to receive the gun ahead of the estimated delivery date. At least my confidence in his legitimacy would not have been so shaken. He advertised on Gunbroker (still does), and has increased his delivery time to 5 or six months....still a time frame he cannot fulfill. He needs to stop taking orders so that he can fulfill his commitments or give people a more reasonable completion date. Then stop ignoring emails, and keep customers apprised as to his progress to reestablish his credibility. I am just thankful that I received something for my money. Not near the work of a Martz, but I got my moneys' worth.

Tom, I envy your ability to produce the type of metal work that can become the cornerstone of many collections. I never doubted that a quality product can take many, many hours of tedious work. Having trusted someone with to me a considerable sum of money, and then to be lied to.....that shakes my confidence. When told 6 weeks, and it takes 44 weeks, then that shakes my confidence. He should have been up front somewhere instead of making further promises that he could not keep. It would have been far better if he had said "look Jim, i have had some troubles here at home, and I will not be able to complete my commitment for at least a year or more". At least then I would not have been wondering for almost a year if I was getting anything for my money. Yes, quality takes time........lies take away credibility.

LugerMan.com · 02-09-2012, 03:19 PM

Hi,

My apologies for unpleasant experience.

I am glad you received the product and you are happy with it.

My current turn around time is about 12 month and to avoid this type of situations in the future i am upfront about slow delivery times.

Also a design of my 1920 Carbine conversions have improved and you can visit my site fro revised version of the product.

Thanks.

LugerMan.com · 02-09-2012, 04:28 PM

Here are some pictures of one of the later conversions.
Thanks.

sheepherder · 02-09-2012, 07:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by LugerMan.com

Here are some pictures of one of the later conversions.
Thanks.

[Pics saved to LugerForum.com]

LugerMan -

Thank you for posting the pics!

08-21-2009, 10:10 AM	#1
Lugerdoc Patron LugerForum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: POB 398 St.Charles,MO. 63302 Posts: 5,089 Thanks: 6 Thanked 737 Times in 484 Posts	It would seem that LUGERMAN'S major problem is either taking on too many jobs or underestimating their delivery time. I never like to rush an artist. I'd rather let him do it right than do it fast. In the past, I've waited over 2 years for work by Morgan or Martz, but I did learn one thing, don't pay in full, until the job it done. I don't do restorations or any refinishing, but still find that some jobs just take longer than my original estimate, I thank those who have patience and just want the repairs done right. TH __________________ Tom Heller POB 398 ST.Charles, MO. 63302 Tel 636-447-3006 lugerdoc@charter.net

08-21-2009, 07:00 PM	#2
junglejim User Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: Ohio Posts: 42 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Lugerman credibility Hi Tom, I see from other posts that you have an excellent reputation. Reputation is in fact what is in question concerning Lugerman.......has nothing to do with patience in a long wait for quality products. I too have a number of Martz (P38 carbine, 1900 Luger carbine, baby Luger, P-38 target pistol), Morgan restoration (Borchardt), Prudhomme engraved piece (1906 Swiss), etc., and never questioned the time it took for quality. What I do question in Lugerman's situation is a promised delivery of 6 weeks. Not knowing the gunsmith, not knowing that he does this part time, not knowing that he was in the midst of a federal audit, I contracted with him. When all the excuses had settled, after numerous outright lies to stall me off, with the threat of lawsuit, on the "eleventh hour" he promised me the gun which I just received. Promised in 6 weeks......delivered after 44 weeks. I wasn't being impatient..I was concerned that I was being scammed. He wanted and received half the money up front and wanted it overnighted to him. That should have sent up red flags, but he has a near perfect record with Gunbroker. He said it normally took a month to complete a luger carbine. Is it no wonder that I became concerned that I had lost my money when many months had passed? Of course, anyone having delivery troubles by the time they wish to leave a negative their time has run out with Gunbroker. No credibility. The point being, not the wait....if he had been up front and indicated it could take a year or more....I wouldn't have been worried, and would have actually been please to receive the gun ahead of the estimated delivery date. At least my confidence in his legitimacy would not have been so shaken. He advertised on Gunbroker (still does), and has increased his delivery time to 5 or six months....still a time frame he cannot fulfill. He needs to stop taking orders so that he can fulfill his commitments or give people a more reasonable completion date. Then stop ignoring emails, and keep customers apprised as to his progress to reestablish his credibility. I am just thankful that I received something for my money. Not near the work of a Martz, but I got my moneys' worth. Tom, I envy your ability to produce the type of metal work that can become the cornerstone of many collections. I never doubted that a quality product can take many, many hours of tedious work. Having trusted someone with to me a considerable sum of money, and then to be lied to.....that shakes my confidence. When told 6 weeks, and it takes 44 weeks, then that shakes my confidence. He should have been up front somewhere instead of making further promises that he could not keep. It would have been far better if he had said "look Jim, i have had some troubles here at home, and I will not be able to complete my commitment for at least a year or more". At least then I would not have been wondering for almost a year if I was getting anything for my money. Yes, quality takes time........lies take away credibility.

02-09-2012, 03:19 PM	#3
LugerMan.com User Join Date: Feb 2012 Posts: 377 Thanks: 91 Thanked 364 Times in 116 Posts	My appologies Hi, My apologies for unpleasant experience. I am glad you received the product and you are happy with it. My current turn around time is about 12 month and to avoid this type of situations in the future i am upfront about slow delivery times. Also a design of my 1920 Carbine conversions have improved and you can visit my site fro revised version of the product. Thanks.

02-09-2012, 04:28 PM	#4
LugerMan.com User Join Date: Feb 2012 Posts: 377 Thanks: 91 Thanked 364 Times in 116 Posts	Example of the last carbine version Here are some pictures of one of the later conversions. Thanks.

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