Stoeger 9mm SS Luger? Anybody?

Vlim · 07-09-2009, 09:53 AM

Add to that the general consensus that the steel types used to make the stainless steel lugers are too soft and this in turn leads to problems.

I remember examining a 6"version last year. We couldn't even dismantle it properly as the parts were so poorly fitted that everything was stuck.

The design certainly has potential, but it needs quite a bit of work in the QA department.

jeffs · 07-14-2009, 09:52 PM

Mine is a later Stoeger 4". It works just fine.

Jeff

Drachenstein · 07-14-2009, 11:56 PM

I have a late Stoeger Navy (6 in) that works just fine. I have no problem with disassembly or assembly. Very balanced and accurate. They are though a bit thicker and not quite so ergonomic as a classic Luger, but I do have small hands.
AIMCO actually made both the Stoeger and the Mitchell. There was a problem with the early Mitchell models with the metallurgy. They were too soft and would eventually beat themselves to death. The problem was supposed to have been corrected while still under the Mitchell name. You can still get replacement parts through Aimco but they are expensive. Example the magazines are not interchangeable with other lugers and will normally cost about $65 ea.

sheepherder · 07-15-2009, 06:53 AM

One thing about SS pistols that I've found over the years is that you need a lubricant made to keep the metal parts from galling ("sticking"). The #1 lubricant is military developed and issued LSA [Lubricant, Small Arms]. It was initially developed for the M16, which uses steel sliding on aluminum. Any gun show will have bottles of it; white bottles seem to work better than the brown bottles, but that may just be my subjective determination.

alvin · 10-23-2009, 06:51 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Vlim

I remember examining a 6"version last year. We couldn't even dismantle it properly as the parts were so poorly fitted that everything was stuck.

The design certainly has potential, but it needs quite a bit of work in the QA department.

Isn't this thing made by CNC, and supposed to be very precisely made?

The only confirmed CNC gun that I played in the past was a newly made Auto Ordnance M1 carbine that I bought NIB. Magazine column article said it's made from "state-of-the-art" manufacturing facilities in Worcester, Massachusetts.

Sounds good. However, that M1 was my nightmare. It jams like crazy in range, and it's even less accurate than a much smaller Mauser pistol made 70 years ago at 50 or 100 yards. Since then, I don't believe "state-of-the-art" anymore.

sheepherder · 10-23-2009, 06:55 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by alvin

Isn't this thing made by CNC, and supposed to be very precisely made?...Since then, I don't believe "state-of-the-art" anymore.

"Garbage in...garbage out"...

alvin · 10-23-2009, 07:56 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by postino

"Garbage in...garbage out"...

What could be wrong with the input steel?

I would assume that the data feeding into the computer is correct, their multi-million-dollar CNC equipments are great, and the operators (if any) are professionals.

But why is the product quality low? and what's human being's factor in this process?

Return to NIB Stainless Luger. If parts do not even fit, sounds like a parts gun, where did the precision lost in the manufacturing process.... cutting and milling was controlled by computer?

sheepherder · 10-23-2009, 06:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by alvin

What could be wrong with the input steel?

I would assume that the data feeding into the computer is correct, their multi-million-dollar CNC equipments are great, and the operators (if any) are professionals.

But why is the product quality low? and what's human being's factor in this process?

The person who coded the program may have used excessive clearances (different from tolerances)...The SS may have been of low quality or just too "soft" a grade...Stainless is subject to "galling" no matter what grade; it requires good lubrication...(I use LSA on all my SS pistols; others have their own preferred lubes)...

Operator/coder can specify spindle speed too fast (or too slow); feed rate may be too high (or too low); depth of cut may be...yup, you guessed it...too much or too little...

It's not all that much different from manually machining the piece...You just approach it differently...and you try out a new program on inexpensive workpieces; not expensive forgings (or in the case of the SS Lugers, investment castings, IIRC)...

It's not something you can learn in a day...a good machinist learns his trade over a lifetime...and is still learning...

I wish I was a good machinist...I'm running out of time...

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07-09-2009, 09:53 AM	#1
Vlim Moderator Lifetime LugerForum Patron Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: Europe Posts: 5,053 Thanks: 1,036 Thanked 3,991 Times in 1,205 Posts	Add to that the general consensus that the steel types used to make the stainless steel lugers are too soft and this in turn leads to problems. I remember examining a 6"version last year. We couldn't even dismantle it properly as the parts were so poorly fitted that everything was stuck. The design certainly has potential, but it needs quite a bit of work in the QA department.

07-14-2009, 09:52 PM	#2
jeffs User Join Date: Sep 2008 Posts: 170 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Mine is a later Stoeger 4". It works just fine. Jeff

07-14-2009, 11:56 PM	#3
Drachenstein User Join Date: Nov 2008 Location: Elizabethtown, KY Posts: 78 Thanks: 0 Thanked 1 Time in 1 Post	I have a late Stoeger Navy (6 in) that works just fine. I have no problem with disassembly or assembly. Very balanced and accurate. They are though a bit thicker and not quite so ergonomic as a classic Luger, but I do have small hands. AIMCO actually made both the Stoeger and the Mitchell. There was a problem with the early Mitchell models with the metallurgy. They were too soft and would eventually beat themselves to death. The problem was supposed to have been corrected while still under the Mitchell name. You can still get replacement parts through Aimco but they are expensive. Example the magazines are not interchangeable with other lugers and will normally cost about $65 ea.

07-15-2009, 06:53 AM	#4
sheepherder Lifer Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Feb 2009 Location: ...on the 'ol Erie Canal... Posts: 8,208 Thanks: 1,425 Thanked 4,474 Times in 2,343 Posts	One thing about SS pistols that I've found over the years is that you need a lubricant made to keep the metal parts from galling ("sticking"). The #1 lubricant is military developed and issued LSA [Lubricant, Small Arms]. It was initially developed for the M16, which uses steel sliding on aluminum. Any gun show will have bottles of it; white bottles seem to work better than the brown bottles, but that may just be my subjective determination.