New (to me) Banner Mauser Luger - Some questions...

mrerick · 02-10-2010, 09:19 PM

Hi,

I just purchased a Banner Mauser Luger from another forum member, and have a couple of questions about it.

It is two digit date marked "42" on the receiver:

Why did Mauser vary the date coding between 4 digit "1942" and the "42" on my gun?

The pistol has E/135 proof marks and E/Swastika marks in multiple places:

There are no apparent foreign proof marks. Was this most likely a German Military pistol?

It has a 3 digit plus cursive "g" "q" or "y" serial number. I can't tell for sure since it doesn't match any of the cursive forms documented in the tech section of Luger Forum.

Is it possible to estimate a manufacture date from this?

There is a beautiful plum blued extractor:

Why did Mauser mark Lugers with the different codes "42" "byf" and the banner? Were there any manufacturing or marketing differences?

It also came with an aluminum base FXO extruded magazine with E/37 proof markings. There is no serial number on the magazine base. Is this correct for this manufacturing period?

This pistol is sharp and feels tight with very little functional wear. I'm looking forward to the range this weekend!!

I feel lucky to have this Luger, and look forward to learning more about it!

Thanks for the forums... and thanks for looking.

Marc

Edward Tinker · 02-10-2010, 11:43 PM

Marc, asking a lot of questions.

Did you buy it as a "shooter"? Cuz, you break a numbered part, value goes way down ...

Anyway, Mauser banners are nice guns, I assume you don't have either of Jan's books on Axis pistols or 3rd Reich Lugers?

I'd do a search on banner mauser and see what comes up.

ed

mrerick · 02-10-2010, 11:52 PM

Hi, Ed, I don't have a copy of Jan's books yet. Will be watching for them to come available used or otherwise...

I did buy it as a shooter, and will shoot with care.

Like many, it doesn't have the empty magazine hold open lever and spring. I am looking for one, marked "15" if possible...

I have been searching on the web and couldn't find the answers to the questions I posted here. I'll continue to do so...

Marc

Edward Tinker · 02-11-2010, 12:04 AM

I can answer a few questions, there are Mauser experts here. When I said search, I meant here on the forum, the FAQ, etc.

It is two digit date marked "42" on the receiver: Why did Mauser vary the date coding between 4 digit "1942" and the "42" on my gun? UNKNOWN, IT IS A VARIATION, BUT I DO NOT KNOW WHY FOR CERTAIN.

The pistol has E/135 proof marks and E/Swastika marks in multiple places
YES, THE EAGLE 135 IS THE ACCEPTANCE MARKING BY AN INSPECTOR.

There are no apparent foreign proof marks. Was this most likely a German Military pistol? STARTED AS A COMMERICIAL; AS ITS A BANNER, THEN WAS TAKEN INTO MILITARY SERVICE.

It has a 3 digit plus cursive "g" serial number. Is it possible to estimate a manufacture date from this?
YES, BUT ONLY LOOSELY

Why did Mauser mark Lugers with the different codes "42" "byf" and the banner? Were there any manufacturing or marketing differences? YES, THIS IS ANSWERED IN A COUPLE OF THE SEARCHES I DID ON THIS FORUM, BUT SHORT ANSWER IS;

BYF IS A CODE NAME FOR MAUSER
42 WAS A CODE NAME FOR MAUSER
MAUSER BANNER IS A COMMERICAL MARKING

It also came with an aluminum base FXO extruded magazine with E/37 proof markings. There is no serial number on the magazine base. Is this correct for this manufacturing period? I THINK YES FOR A COMMERICIAL, BUT A MILITARY ACCEPTED WOULD PROBABLY HAVE THE NUMBER STAMPED ON IT.

mrerick · 02-11-2010, 11:48 AM

Ed, thanks for the followup.

The magazine does have an E/37 military acceptance mark in two places. There is no caliber marking on the barrel under the serial number.

I knew that the three codes "byf" "42" and the banner on the toggle all referred to Mauser, but I wasn't sure that the banner indicated manufacture for commercial sale. Thanks for confirming that.

Was it uncommon for a Luger intended for commercial sale to be delivered to the military in 1942? Any idea of how many ended up like that? I don't see a lot of the variation lists including "42" date Banners.

I've read your FAQ over on Jan's forum. I'm particularly impressed by the detail and your definition of an inspection process. Thank you for this work!

Marc

Lugerdoc · 02-11-2010, 12:49 PM

Is your 42 PO8 all matching? I would have thought that a E/135 military accepted "g" suffix block should have a byf marked toggle assy. If matching and in the "y" suffix block the Mauser banner commerical toggle would be appropriate, but most of these will be E/L police accepted, rather than military. TH

c3006 · 02-11-2010, 02:00 PM

I had this pistol awhile but knew it had been reblued and never researched it. Mark take a pic of that suffix ,it might be a q. I dont know if that would make a difference thou. c

mrerick · 02-11-2010, 07:09 PM

Hi, Here's a closeup of the serial number suffix:

This is the upright letter as is appears on the front of the frame just below the serial number.

I couldn't find this exact form in the cursive letter images that are posted in the tech info section of this website.

Marc

Lyn Islaub · 02-11-2010, 11:07 PM

I believe Tom to be correct. The 42 dated Mauser Banner Lugers are reported to have had a serial number range starting in the low 8100s and ending in the mid-8400 range with a 'y' suffix, and either an Eagle L police proof or an Eagle N commercial proof. There are variations to every rule, but I doubt that there were any late Banners with a 'g' suffix.
Lyn

mrerick · 04-07-2010, 07:18 PM

Joop over at Jan Still's forum has given me some great background information on Mauser production of this period. See:

http://luger.gunboards.com/showthread.php?t=22017

There were apparently a small number of Military proofed Mauser Lugers made in mid 1942 from left over parts. Other military Lugers with Banner toggles have been observed.

The "g" date block would put this into May, 1942 production.

The "WR" mark is a generic production inspection mark meaning "Werks Revision" or "factory control".

Marc

02-10-2010, 09:19 PM	#1
mrerick Super Moderator - Patron LugerForum Life Patron Join Date: Dec 2009 Location: Eastern North Carolina, USA Posts: 3,900 Thanks: 1,370 Thanked 3,094 Times in 1,503 Posts	New (to me) Banner Mauser Luger - Some questions... Hi, I just purchased a Banner Mauser Luger from another forum member, and have a couple of questions about it. It is two digit date marked "42" on the receiver: Why did Mauser vary the date coding between 4 digit "1942" and the "42" on my gun? The pistol has E/135 proof marks and E/Swastika marks in multiple places: There are no apparent foreign proof marks. Was this most likely a German Military pistol? It has a 3 digit plus cursive "g" "q" or "y" serial number. I can't tell for sure since it doesn't match any of the cursive forms documented in the tech section of Luger Forum. Is it possible to estimate a manufacture date from this? There is a beautiful plum blued extractor: Why did Mauser mark Lugers with the different codes "42" "byf" and the banner? Were there any manufacturing or marketing differences? It also came with an aluminum base FXO extruded magazine with E/37 proof markings. There is no serial number on the magazine base. Is this correct for this manufacturing period? This pistol is sharp and feels tight with very little functional wear. I'm looking forward to the range this weekend!! I feel lucky to have this Luger, and look forward to learning more about it! Thanks for the forums... and thanks for looking. Marc Last edited by mrerick; 02-12-2010 at 10:12 AM.

02-10-2010, 11:43 PM	#2
Edward Tinker Super Moderator Eternal Lifer LugerForum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: North of Spokane, WA Posts: 15,909 Thanks: 1,986 Thanked 4,500 Times in 2,076 Posts	Marc, asking a lot of questions. Did you buy it as a "shooter"? Cuz, you break a numbered part, value goes way down ... Anyway, Mauser banners are nice guns, I assume you don't have either of Jan's books on Axis pistols or 3rd Reich Lugers? I'd do a search on banner mauser and see what comes up. ed __________________ Edward Tinker ************ Co-Author of Police Lugers - Co-Author of Simson Lugers Author of Veteran Bring Backs Vol I, Vol II, Vol III and Vol IV

02-11-2010, 12:04 AM	#4
Edward Tinker Super Moderator Eternal Lifer LugerForum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: North of Spokane, WA Posts: 15,909 Thanks: 1,986 Thanked 4,500 Times in 2,076 Posts	I can answer a few questions, there are Mauser experts here. When I said search, I meant here on the forum, the FAQ, etc. It is two digit date marked "42" on the receiver: Why did Mauser vary the date coding between 4 digit "1942" and the "42" on my gun? UNKNOWN, IT IS A VARIATION, BUT I DO NOT KNOW WHY FOR CERTAIN. The pistol has E/135 proof marks and E/Swastika marks in multiple places YES, THE EAGLE 135 IS THE ACCEPTANCE MARKING BY AN INSPECTOR. There are no apparent foreign proof marks. Was this most likely a German Military pistol? STARTED AS A COMMERICIAL; AS ITS A BANNER, THEN WAS TAKEN INTO MILITARY SERVICE. It has a 3 digit plus cursive "g" serial number. Is it possible to estimate a manufacture date from this? YES, BUT ONLY LOOSELY Why did Mauser mark Lugers with the different codes "42" "byf" and the banner? Were there any manufacturing or marketing differences? YES, THIS IS ANSWERED IN A COUPLE OF THE SEARCHES I DID ON THIS FORUM, BUT SHORT ANSWER IS; BYF IS A CODE NAME FOR MAUSER 42 WAS A CODE NAME FOR MAUSER MAUSER BANNER IS A COMMERICAL MARKING It also came with an aluminum base FXO extruded magazine with E/37 proof markings. There is no serial number on the magazine base. Is this correct for this manufacturing period? I THINK YES FOR A COMMERICIAL, BUT A MILITARY ACCEPTED WOULD PROBABLY HAVE THE NUMBER STAMPED ON IT. __________________ Edward Tinker ************ Co-Author of Police Lugers - Co-Author of Simson Lugers Author of Veteran Bring Backs Vol I, Vol II, Vol III and Vol IV

02-11-2010, 12:49 PM	#6
Lugerdoc Patron LugerForum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: POB 398 St.Charles,MO. 63302 Posts: 5,089 Thanks: 6 Thanked 736 Times in 483 Posts	Is your 42 PO8 all matching? I would have thought that a E/135 military accepted "g" suffix block should have a byf marked toggle assy. If matching and in the "y" suffix block the Mauser banner commerical toggle would be appropriate, but most of these will be E/L police accepted, rather than military. TH __________________ Tom Heller POB 398 ST.Charles, MO. 63302 Tel 636-447-3006 lugerdoc@charter.net

02-11-2010, 02:00 PM	#7
c3006 User Join Date: Sep 2005 Location: east tn Posts: 526 Thanks: 5 Thanked 12 Times in 5 Posts	I had this pistol awhile but knew it had been reblued and never researched it. Mark take a pic of that suffix ,it might be a q. I dont know if that would make a difference thou. c __________________ Men Accustomed unto thier arms and their liberties will never endure the yoke. James Harrington 1776

02-10-2010, 11:52 PM	#3
mrerick Super Moderator - Patron LugerForum Life Patron Join Date: Dec 2009 Location: Eastern North Carolina, USA Posts: 3,900 Thanks: 1,370 Thanked 3,094 Times in 1,503 Posts	Hi, Ed, I don't have a copy of Jan's books yet. Will be watching for them to come available used or otherwise... I did buy it as a shooter, and will shoot with care. Like many, it doesn't have the empty magazine hold open lever and spring. I am looking for one, marked "15" if possible... I have been searching on the web and couldn't find the answers to the questions I posted here. I'll continue to do so... Marc

02-11-2010, 11:48 AM	#5
mrerick Super Moderator - Patron LugerForum Life Patron Join Date: Dec 2009 Location: Eastern North Carolina, USA Posts: 3,900 Thanks: 1,370 Thanked 3,094 Times in 1,503 Posts	Ed, thanks for the followup. The magazine does have an E/37 military acceptance mark in two places. There is no caliber marking on the barrel under the serial number. I knew that the three codes "byf" "42" and the banner on the toggle all referred to Mauser, but I wasn't sure that the banner indicated manufacture for commercial sale. Thanks for confirming that. Was it uncommon for a Luger intended for commercial sale to be delivered to the military in 1942? Any idea of how many ended up like that? I don't see a lot of the variation lists including "42" date Banners. I've read your FAQ over on Jan's forum. I'm particularly impressed by the detail and your definition of an inspection process. Thank you for this work! Marc

02-11-2010, 07:09 PM	#8
mrerick Super Moderator - Patron LugerForum Life Patron Join Date: Dec 2009 Location: Eastern North Carolina, USA Posts: 3,900 Thanks: 1,370 Thanked 3,094 Times in 1,503 Posts	Closeup of Serial Number suffix Hi, Here's a closeup of the serial number suffix: This is the upright letter as is appears on the front of the frame just below the serial number. I couldn't find this exact form in the cursive letter images that are posted in the tech info section of this website. Marc Last edited by mrerick; 02-12-2010 at 10:08 AM.

02-11-2010, 11:07 PM	#9
Lyn Islaub Lifer Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Phoenix, AZ Posts: 435 Thanks: 3 Thanked 152 Times in 72 Posts	I believe Tom to be correct. The 42 dated Mauser Banner Lugers are reported to have had a serial number range starting in the low 8100s and ending in the mid-8400 range with a 'y' suffix, and either an Eagle L police proof or an Eagle N commercial proof. There are variations to every rule, but I doubt that there were any late Banners with a 'g' suffix. Lyn

04-07-2010, 07:18 PM	#10
mrerick Super Moderator - Patron LugerForum Life Patron Join Date: Dec 2009 Location: Eastern North Carolina, USA Posts: 3,900 Thanks: 1,370 Thanked 3,094 Times in 1,503 Posts	Joop over at Jan Still's forum has given me some great background information on Mauser production of this period. See: http://luger.gunboards.com/showthread.php?t=22017 There were apparently a small number of Military proofed Mauser Lugers made in mid 1942 from left over parts. Other military Lugers with Banner toggles have been observed. The "g" date block would put this into May, 1942 production. The "WR" mark is a generic production inspection mark meaning "Werks Revision" or "factory control". Marc Attached Thumbnails