1911 Erfurt, Unit Marked

[Dwight Gruber]

Part 1

In 1908 the German Army accepted DWM's Luger as its service pistol P-08. During its first three years of Military production contract, DWM delivered approximately 42,000 Lugers (Still, "Imperial Lugers"). Reasoning that DWM would not by itself be able to produce the number of pistols required by the military, and probably not wanting to be solely dependent on a commercial manufacturer, in January of 1909 the government appropriated money to start up P-08 production in the Prussian arms factory of Erfurt, in Thuringia.

Save for disputed examples dated 1910 (which may indicate a small pre-production "proof" run), the first Erfurt Lugers were delivered in 1911. It is estimated (Still, ibid) that 10,000 Lugers were delivered that year, all with no serial number suffix. These pistols were the P-08 pattern without holdopen or stock lug.

One noteworthy characteristic of Erfurt-manufactured Lugers is the presence of inspectors' marks on almost all of the small parts. These are small, upper-case Fraktur letters surmounted by a crown. According to the 1910 Instructions for marking the P-08, some 30 parts required stamping. This requirement was adhered to rigorously by the inspectors at the Erfurt plant, as opposed to the DWM factory where these parts were almost never stamped.

Presented here is 1911 Erfurt #7638, some three-quarters of the way through the 1911 production run. (The magazine is not matching and not Erfurt, and is in all ways ordinary, and so is not presented.)













The barrrel serial number and barrel gage display "halo", properly stamped through the blue. The witness mark appears perfect to my eyes.

[Dwight Gruber]

Part 2 (edited to include correct unit mark information)

Many of the small inspectors' marks can be seen in the following pictures. Not all of them are easily visible, and some of them do not accept whitening well.

A holdopen has been added, as required in May of 1913. A pin has been inserted for it from the outside of the frame, seen here properly unblued, just above and to the back of the trigger pin. The small inspector's stamp certifying its addition is seen just below.



...but the sear bar has not been relieved (a retrofit required in mid-1916), as can be seen just to the right of the sideplate.





The grips are numbered to the gun, and have inspector's stamps.



Much has been made of the inferiority of manufacture of Erfurt Lugers, compared to their DWM contemporaries. Here you can see where the tool used to cut the diamonds of the right toggle-knob end shifted between cuts, double-cutting them and killing their points. The same flaw is noted on the left knob as well, but not as strongly.



This Luger has a couple of very strange markings. On the trigger plate, just above the serial number, a rather cryptic figure is stamped, accompanied by a double-struck (and incompletely struck) upper-case Roman M . A similar figure, along with the poorly struck M , is also stamped on the right receiver above the holdopen pin. The M on the receiver is very difficult to see in the photograph, but up close and personal it is assuredly the same stamp as on the trigger plate, inverted. Both sets of stamps are under the blue.



Has anybody seen the like?

This 191 Errfurt is unit marked, 14.A.F.II.8.H.6.



This unit mark indicates: 14 Fuss-Artillerie-Regiment, Bataillon II, [Munitionskolonne] Haubitzen 8, Waffe Nr. 6. The units formal name is: Badisches Fussartillerie-Regiment Nr. 14. Raised in 1893 with a home port of Strassburg (Still, correspondence). This translates as 14th Foot-Artillery Regiment, Second Battalion, Howitzer Munitions Column 8, weapon #6.

Foot artillery is Fortress and otherwise emplaced artillery. Unlike Field Artillery, German Foot Artillery units had little organic mobility and used heavy howitzers and siege mortars. The German Foot Artillery manned coastal defenses; but they also manned the guns of interior fortifications and were responsible for conducting set-piece sieges in the field if such an operation became necessary. The reduction of the Belgian forts along the Meuse River in 1914 was primarily a Foot Artillery operation. (Zabecki, "Steel Wind").

--Dwight

[Edward Tinker]

Very nice presentation and great to read Dwight!



Ed

[Nick Davis]

Dwight
Great info keep it comming

[Russ]

Dwight
Very Nice. I enjoyed the write up.

Russ <img border="0" alt="[bigbye]" title="" src="graemlins/xyxwave.gif" />

[Doubs]

Very nice presentation, Dwight. I like Erfurt Lugers so this is right up my alley.

In spite of the double-cut knurling on the toggle knobs, the pictures seem to show a very nicely finished pistol; finished to a standard much higher than later production and close to DWM quality.

[Dwight Gruber]

Doubs,

You are right about the overall finish of the pistol, I perhaps overstated the case in my attempt to point up the notable flaw.

--Dwight

[Ron Wood]

That is a nice gun Dwight, and your photography is about as good as it gets. I like educational presentations such as this one and would encourage more of them on the forum. We all benefit, even us greybeards. Many thanks for your efforts.

[crc]

Dwight,
Very nice luger ... wish it was mine. Regards, Randy

[Strider]

Dwight, great presentation. Like Ron said very educational. Thanks for taking the time to produce this fine work. <img border="0" alt="[thumbsup]" title="" src="graemlins/bigok.gif" /> I would like to see more of this. Maybe an area could be set up here on the forum for this type of presentation. What do you think John? It would be a great educational tool for everyone.
Sid.

[John Sabato]

Don't know if you are talking about John D. or me, but I doubt you would get an argument from either one of us on the value to the entire forum of the fine work that has been contributed by Dwight (and others) in the past and in this message thread.

I concur with the establishment of an Educational Archive section for the forum, but I think it might be wise to wait until John D. has completed the upgrade preliminary work and the forum has made the transition to the new format, otherwise we may end up having to do it twice.

Those of you with the photographic skills and the knowledge to document a particular "breed" of Luger are invited to do so, and the results will become a permanent part of the forum. You can send any such educational articles and accompanying photographs to be at the official Lugerforum email address: Lugerforum@yahoo.com and I will hold them for publication under the new forum format when that becomes a reality.

Once again, Thanks Dwight. for your unselfish sharing of photos and facts with us all.

[Strider]

Hi John S., actually the original reply was for John D. I knew he had been working on the new format and thought I would mention this to see if he might be able to add a presentation section to it. Just an early suggestion for him to consider.

John D., as if you were not busy enough now. Thanks for all that you do. All of us do appreciate it very much. Thanks.
Sid.

[Edward Tinker]

The problem you have is this (not to be a pain...)

1. People are afraid their gun will get picked apart

2. People are too lazy to do the work (look at how many lurkers there are, compared to posters)

3. People are afraid their guns serial numbers will be stolen (or something weird like that, I understand a dealer worrying that you'll swap parts on them...)

4. People think their collection isn't good enough.

Now the bright side, hey guys, your gun is worth a look! Share, we'll make nice comments (bad ones, I'll delete!)



ed

[Herb]

Dwight, great photos and write up. That side plate has me stumped, I can't find any info on those markings. My 1912 Erfurt has different inspectors marks and the toggles are not double stamped, maybe they got thier act together by then. It also has the added holdopen with exterior pin and inspection stamp and the unrelieved sear bar.