Toggle Clues~~~

[cirelaw]

I recently noticed the disparity of wear patterns on or near the toggle. They resemble luger fingerprints each being unique. Would a reblued leave the same result. Can the wear accurately demonstrate basically how much use its been through. Does this aspect affect grading or value?? ~~ Eric

[Dwight Gruber]

Eric,

Is the left-side pistol in your first photograph a Krieghoff?

--Dwight

[cirelaw]

A 1937~~~

[Ron Wood]

Dwight knows what to look for. That is one of the better photographs of the Krieghoff rear frame "thumbprint" heat treatment that I have seen. Really shows it off.

[cirelaw]

Randal Gipson in 'THE KRIEGOFF PARABELLUM' on this subject he writes, ' Before the blueing process, certain components of Kriegoff Lugers were flame hardened. This surface hardening was applied to the surfaces which subjected to extreme wear. Those included were the back of the frame where the tang on the rear toggle link strikes during recoil, the frame ramps where the toggle knobs which can them link strikes during recoil, the frame ramps where the toggle knobs strike and the underside of the toggle knobs which can themselves on the ramps. . The hardening areas, when blued over, have a different hue then the rest of the finished pistol. This characteristic can be most readily discerned on the the rear of the frame. In proper light, the spot so hardened will appear as a greasy thumbprint. This trait used to be an inportant deterinant in detecting a reblued pistol. Lately, however, restorers have mastered the art of replacing this hardened spot prior to reblueing.~~~~Randal Gibson, page 51

[Dwight Gruber]

Originally Posted by cirelaw

I recently noticed the disparity of wear patterns on or near the toggle. They resemble luger fingerprints each being unique. Would a reblued leave the same result. Can the wear accurately demonstrate basically how much use its been through. Does this aspect affect grading or value?? ~~ Eric

Eric,

The toggle strike pattern on the rear of the fame is normal use wear, indicative of the pistol having been fired whether the pistol has its original finish or has been reblued. The strength and amount of impact effect can be a result of heavy use, a weak recoil spring (particularly in the case of a .30 caliber pistol rebarreled to 9mm, but without replacement of a proper recoil spring), use of overpowered ammunition such as +P, submachine gun, or NATO military rounds; or a combination of these factors.

The Imperial army was aware of the potential for frame failure from this impact. The 8-inch barrel of the artillery Luger increases the mass of the receiver assembly, which increases the force of the toggle tail against the fame. Production of the LP08 begining in 1914 included strengthening the rear of the frame by removing less material from the interior of the rear frame well, thereby leaving it thicker. This modification is characteristic of all P08 frames by all manufacturers after 1914 (with the exception of DVP new production in the 1950s).

Krieghoff's practice of heat-treating the rear frame impact area drastically reduces the amount of impact marking, which you have clearly illustrated (and many thanks for the excellent example).

By itself, rear frame impact wear has little to no effect on grading or value. It is one of the many things to take note of when considering a Luger's over-all condition.

-Dwight

[cirelaw]

Thank you Dwight, I'm amazed how much I don't know even collecting lugers over a decade. Thank God we have you and other luger icons. The books are no good unless you read them. In Law School it was usually a few hundred pages a night, 5-6 subjects." Now I'm gratefull for one topic, lugers!! I've realized lugers are like people. Each one is different in some way. Although each may have a common name, maker or model yet each is unique as its histories and various owners spanning over decades. An honor and privalege . Thank you and especially Ron, Jerry and George for your patience and guidance! ~~~ Eric