Broken Parts Survey--Finished!

[Dwight Gruber]

After a long procrastination I have finished the broken parts survey. I am posting it here, and have sent it to Ed Tinker for inclusion in the FAQ. Thanks to everyone who responded.

--Dwight

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Those of us who shoot our Lugers are alert to the possibility of breaking the occasional part on these 60- to 100-year-old guns. Those of us who collect as well know how much a broken/replaced part can reduce the value of our guns.

But, what parts are likely to break in use? This brief survey was taken in the fall of 2002 to try to determine a pattern of potential parts breakage. The intent was to identify parts which break as a result of shooting, but a couple other noteworthy results cropped up.

The Takedown Lever (or Locking Lever) spring This is the tiny spring which holds the takedown lever in position. Although this spring is unaffected by shooting, it spends its entire existence in a compressed state, and is exercised whenever the lever is moved. It can, therefore, be use stressed even in a Luger which is never shot. It is interesting to note that this is the second most broken part.

The Million-Dollar Chip, the little piece of the left grip plate behind the safety lever which is commonly broken away; so called because that is the total amount all the Lugers which are missing this piece have been devalued. Several respondants mentioned this grip breakage, but it appeared to be beyond the scope of the survey as a condition of the pistol, rather than as a factor of active use, and I was not going to include it. However, recently I was at the range shooting a number of my Lugers; when I offered an LP-08 to a shooting companion, I noticed that the chip was missing from the grip. It was there when the shooting session started, usage therefore is one cause of this condition. This is not reflected as a statisitc, merely mentioned as a cautionary note.

Lugers are a robust, sturdy pistol, designed to use ammunition more powerful than that found commercially, at least in the U.S. Although they are finely crafted (and considerably hand-fitted) machines, they are in no way 'fragile'. They are great fun to shoot, and incredibly accurate. Over the course of 60-100 years, however, metal can become fatigued, crystallized, parts can develop microscopic cracks. Care should be taken for one's personal safety, as well as for maintaining the value of our Lugers.

--Dwight Gruber

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There have been 22 respondants to the survey, although by the nature of the answers this represents more actual pistols than this number.

ejector** 11

takedown spring 7

extractor* 6

grip screw** 3

rear toggle axle pin*** 3

trigger lever pin 2

breechblock* 2

rear toggle piece* 2

holdopen spring 2

firing pin* 2

grip safety spring 1

holdopen* 1

upper receiver* 1

recoil spring, flat 1

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* serial numbered part

** proof stamped on Erfurts and most Simpsons

*** serial number stamped, 1932 and later

[G.W. Gill]

Thanks Dwight; Great survey, good info.

[Edward Tinker]

Added to FAQ

Thanks for the work Dwight

[Luke]

Good work, Dwight.

Thanks,
Luke

[Big Norm]

Nice work Dwight. I would have put the extractor, locking bolt, the million dollar chip on the left grip, the magazines pull down pin and plastic and wood bottoms on the magazines at the top of the list. Not necessarily in that order. I was surprised that the ejector was the top problem.
The Luger is a pretty robust gun. But I would never use and original magazine at the range. Its too easy to ding, chip or break the bottoms. That pull down pin can also break too easily. For shooting, an inexpensive repro will do the job.
Big Norm

[Frank]

Sorry Norm, but get a beat up old fxo magazine and you won't have very many problems!! It's a marvelous magazine!!

[glenn s]

When I shot my built up Artillery, the top reciever(bbl. extension) had cracked, sent the upper to Tom Heller and he rebarrelled it to a new upper(thanks Tom), this was in 2000. I noticed the crack on the bottom where the 2 extensions.meet the breech. This was on the ejector side. Also had broken the breech block on one upper rear side right where the cut out for the part that goes against the firing pin spring, Thanks to Tom H. I was able to get that part too. Check the bbl. extensions after shooting, preferably after cleaning.

[Aaron]

Thusfar it seems that we can conclude that the post war Lugers are on a fairly equal par with earlier Lugers as far as durability is concerned.

[Dwight Gruber]

Aaron,

I might draw a different conclusion.

Mauser Parabellums are only 35 or so years old; original P-08 range from 60-100 years old. By reputation most Mauser Parabellums are seldom used, whereas original Lugers can have active, shooting service lives up to 40 years.

In this light the breakage experiences reported with these pistols in the other discussion make them seem relatively fragile.

--Dwight

[Quentin]

Dwight, don't know if you want more data for this survey but surely there are new people like myself who didn't provide data earlier.

Anyway my mismatched shooter has had only one part break over the 30 years (and thousands of rounds) I've had it. The rear toggle/frame axle pin broke in half however the pistol continued to fire. Didn't discover it until I cleaned the gun later in the day. Fortunately the replacement part almost certainly will drop in and work as well as the original pin.

[Dwight Gruber]

Since this discussion is active again, it seems like a good opportunity to gather more data.

If anyone has a broken part during shooting to report, who has not reported it in the original survey, I'd like to include it and update the results. Post your information here, or email me dwightg@pacifier.com.

--Dwight

[hqbmw]

Dwight,

I lost a trigger lever pin on an Artillery.

I also have a rear toggle pin on another Arty that is frozen in place, but does not affect it's shooting ability.

I doubt that you have a report on Jerry Burney's Navy losing a rear toggle pin while we were shooting. It was in the summer of 2006; way past your first query.

[Dwight Gruber]

Updated, thanks.

Dwight

[Mike B]

Dwight,
I had the top of a holdopen sheared off on a 1917 DWM many years ago. That was the last time I shot one of my Lugers. Fortunately Tom had a replacement with the correct number.
Mike

[spartacus38]

I discovered the safety area piece of the grip

missing after shooting at the range; I went

back to the range and never did find it.

Bob

[Steinar]

Bob, the upper right corner of the grip? ..very common thing to loose, known as by some as the 'million dollar ship'. Usually broken off when removing the grips in the wrong manner.

Dwight, could this manual be a usefull part of the survey?http://forum.lugerforum.com/showthre...threadid=18255
It has listed up all parts and the amount of each that should be in reserve pr 100 Lugers. I guess they have based their numbers on how often the part brake.. just a thought, let me know if you want me to list it up for you

[spartacus38]

Steinar, Yes it was the upper right

corner of the grip.

Bob

[Daddydogg]

Hello Dwight,

For inclusion in your survey, I have had 2mm chips develop on both sides of an 1911 Erfurt's breechblock, where the extractor's hook, fits/lays in the breechblock. I have also found a firing pin spring guide had broken at the base of the guide post, on a 1906 DWM American Eagle. In addition I have had an ejector break at the range on the same Erfurt noted above.

Joe

[Freischütz]

Hello - broke an ejector on an S/42

[JD]

I recently purchased a fairly nice Finish M-23 Luger. It has a 5" Tikka replacement barrel, and has obviously been re-arsenaled several times.

When I bought it, it had a broken ejector. After replacing the ejector I put 40 rounds through it before the extractor sheared off where the retaining pin goes through.

Thanks to Lugerdoc, the parts have been replaced with correct originals, and it is perking along fairly well.