BÃ?Â¶hler Steel Barrels.

Jan C Still · 07-01-2005, 07:35 PM

I am constructing a table of DWM Lugers with BÃ?Â¶hler Steel barrels to present in a revision of Volume I. Please supply year, serial number and BÃ?Â¶ number. A start is presented below.
Thanks
Jan

Table 5.5 DWM LUGERS WITH BÃ??HLER STEEL BARRELS.
1913 DWM, sn 1612, BÃ?Â¶ 25, with stock lug, Death Head
1913 DWM, sn 4983a, BÃ?Â¶
1913 DWM, sn 6389a, BÃ?Â¶
1913 DWM, sn 7240a, BÃ?Â¶ 23
1913 DWM, sn 528b, BÃ?Â¶ 24
1913 DWM, sn 199b, BÃ?Â¶ 25
1913 DWM, sn 1186b, BÃ?Â¶ 25, no stock lug
1913 DWM, sn 1386b, BÃ?Â¶ 25
1913 DWM, sn 1596b, BÃ?Â¶ 24, no stock lug,
1913 DWM, sn 1597b, BÃ?Â¶ 24
1913 DWM, sn 2555b, BÃ?Â¶ 24
1913 DWM, sn 4240b, BÃ?Â¶26
1913 DWM, sn 6286b, BÃ?Â¶26, with stock lug
1914 DWM, sn 468, BÃ?Â¶ 26
1914 DWM, sn 1839, BÃ?Â¶ 25
1914 DWM, sn 2502, BÃ?Â¶ 27
1914 DWM, sn 3440, BÃ?Â¶27, 1920 stamp
1914 DWM, sn 4731, BÃ?Â¶ 29
1914 DWM, sn 7738 BÃ?Â¶ 29
1914 DWM, sn 9399, Bo31
1914 DWM, sn 37a, BÃ?Â¶ 30
1914 DWM, sn 880a, BÃ?Â¶ 31
1914 DWM, sn 1439a, BÃ?Â¶ 291914 DWM, sn 1490a, BÃ?Â¶ 31

1914 DWM, sn 7738 BÃ?Â¶ 29

Edward Tinker · 07-01-2005, 07:55 PM

Jan, 1914 added on your forum,

Ed

BogeyB · 07-01-2005, 08:04 PM

Jan,

1913 DWM, s/n 5354b, Bo 26 .

BB

drbuster · 07-01-2005, 09:38 PM

Jan, 1913 DWM #1696b, Bo 24

wlyon · 07-01-2005, 09:44 PM

Jan 1914 DWM #1839, Bo25

Jan C Still · 07-01-2005, 11:42 PM

Ed, Micharl, Herbert, and Bill
Thanks for the information. Table updated.
Jan

Vlim · 07-02-2005, 12:04 PM

Hi,

Some info on Boehler Steel from a 1913 publication 'Moderne Gewehrfabrikation'.

GebrÃ?Â¼der Boehler A.-G. in Wien und Berlin liefern aus ihrem Stahlwerk Kapfenberg LaufstÃ?Â¤be fÃ?Â¼r alle Zwecke. Die LÃ?Â¤ufe fÃ?Â¼r die Ã?Â¶sterreichische Armee. Sowie ein groÃ??er Teil der deutschen InfanteriegewehrlÃ?Â¤ufe und sÃ?Â¤mtliche MaschinengewehrlÃ?Â¤ufe sind aus Boehlerstahl gefertigt.

Dieser Stahl trÃ?Â¤gt die Schutzmarken (Abb. 3 u. 4).

FÃ?Â¼r Jagdgewehre liefert die Firma auÃ??erdem den Ã¢??Blitz"- und den Ã¢??Antinit"-Stahl (Abb. 5 u. 6). Letzterer Stahl ist ein vÃ?Â¶llig rostsicheres Material von groÃ??er ZÃ?Â¤higkeit, das trotz hohem Nickelgehaltes leicht zu bearbeiten ist.

Translation:
The Boehler Brothers A.G. in Vienna and Berlin produce barrel steel for all applications in their Kapfenberg Steel works. The Barrels for the Austrian army as well as a large part of the German infantry rifle barrels and many machinegun barrels are made from Boehler steel.

This steel bears the trademarks shown in images 3 and 4.

For hunting rifles the company only produces the "Blitz" and "Antinit" steel (images 5 and 6). This steel is a completely rust proof high strength material, that although it has a high nickle content, is easy to work on.

The advert comes from the same publication.

Jan C Still · 07-02-2005, 01:15 PM

Gerben
Thanks for the Bohler Steel translation, information, and illustrations. I would request to use the translation and illustrations in a book?
Thanks
Jan

Vlim · 07-02-2005, 05:18 PM

Jan,

No problem.
The official titel of the book is 'Moderne Gewehrfabrikation' by Otto Maretsch. Published in 1913 by Verlag von Bernh. Friedr. Voigt in Leipzig.

It also has some pretty rare, although not very nicely printed, photographs of rifle manufacturing and assembly at Fabrique Nationale, Mauser and DWM.

If you want, I can get you a digital copy of the book, as I have scanned and recognized (OCR) the book as it's pretty fragile and I tend to handle it as little as possible.

The original cover:

Steel forging at DWM, around 1910 - 1913:

Jan C Still · 07-02-2005, 07:03 PM

Gerben
Thanks for the very interesting information.
Jan

Lyn Islaub · 07-03-2005, 11:16 AM

Jan,
1914 DWM, S/N 37a, Bo30.
Lyn

ken d · 07-03-2005, 05:58 PM

Jan:

1914, DWM, s/n 9399, Bo31

Regards Ken D

Jan C Still · 07-03-2005, 06:07 PM

Idoman and Ken
Thanks for the information. Table updated.
Jan

Hugh · 07-15-2005, 11:58 PM

Here's mine; 1914 DWM SN 7738 BO29

Jan C Still · 07-16-2005, 02:25 AM

Hugh
Thanks for the information. Table updated.
Jan

Lyn Islaub · 07-16-2005, 11:41 AM

Jan,
This table might get even more interesting if all of these pistols had the presence or absense of the stock lug recorded. I've read that the stock lugs were added in 1913, even though some 1914s also did not have them. What I'm curious about is why the addition of the stock lug appeared to be random. I have 1913 s/n 1852 without a stock lug, yet the listing above shows 1913 s/n 1612 with a stock lug. Weimar Lugers on page 42 shows 1914 s/n 8837a without a stock lug . Page 43 shows 1914 s/n 1961a with a stock lug. Is there any known explanation as to why DWM's producion line produced these many variables within such a short run of s/ns?? Up till now I had been under the impression that the frames were forged with the stock lug as part of the one piece forging. The way the stock lugs are intersperded within these serial number ranges, it almost appears as it could have been a welded attachment. Your thoughts?
Thx, Lyn

Ron Wood · 07-16-2005, 01:20 PM

Lyn,

I wouldn't put too much "stock" in my 1913 Deathhead (#1612) having a stock lug.

...the serial number is way too early to have one. Although the frame and barrel numbers match and appear to have been made with the same dies, the gun has a replacement side plate and a mismatched sear bar. I suspect it was made up from an earlier barrel/receiver and a later frame, made servicable (perhaps by the mysterious unit that applied the deathhead) and placed into service. The metal is in good shape but it has litte original finish remaining. It has seen a lot of use and I would love to know the story it could tell.

Dwight Gruber · 07-16-2005, 01:38 PM

Lyn,

One might hazard a WAG that frames were not necessarily assembled into guns in the order that they were manufacturerd, but rather went into a parts "bin" and were retrieved for assembly randomly.

One might hazard a much more speculative WAG, that there was more than one fabrication line for frames and it took time to get each of them converted to stock lugs.

--Dwight

Lyn Islaub · 07-16-2005, 06:32 PM

Ron,
Thx for the input. I had thought that my 1913 s/n 1852 to be one of the lower numbers reported and your 1612 surprised me. Dwight's comments about drawing frames from a parts "bin" could make sense, but with only 10,000 1912s and 35,000 1913s being manufactured one would have to wonder how many frames would have been made in advance of the dictate to configure going forward production with stock lugs. Jan could have the answer and if not might be interested in expanding his survey to see if there is any consistancy in the inconsistancy of stock lug incorporation.
Lyn

maddog350gt · 07-22-2005, 10:57 AM

Jan,

1913 DWM Sn 9426a no lug Bo:23
1914 DWM Sn 2227 no suffix Bo:28

Bob M.

07-01-2005, 08:04 PM	#3
BogeyB Lifer Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: Mc Donough, GA. Posts: 419 Thanks: 0 Thanked 222 Times in 96 Posts	Bo barrel Jan, 1913 DWM, s/n 5354b, Bo 26 . BB __________________ MAGA Always!! NRA Benifactor, GCA

07-01-2005, 09:44 PM	#5
wlyon Lifer 2X Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: May 2005 Location: Somewhere in Montana Posts: 2,619 Thanks: 3,144 Thanked 2,531 Times in 943 Posts	Jan 1914 DWM #1839, Bo25 __________________ Bill Lyon

07-15-2005, 11:58 PM	#14
Hugh RIP Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Southeast Texas Swamp Posts: 2,460 Thanks: 2 Thanked 165 Times in 64 Posts	BO bbl Here's mine; 1914 DWM SN 7738 BO29 __________________ *TRUMP FOR PREZ IN '20!*

07-16-2005, 01:20 PM	#17
Ron Wood Moderator 2010 LugerForum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Santa Teresa New Mexico just outside of the West Texas town of El Paso Posts: 6,988 Thanks: 1,067 Thanked 5,099 Times in 1,676 Posts	Lyn, I wouldn't put too much "stock" in my 1913 Deathhead (#1612) having a stock lug....the serial number is way too early to have one. Although the frame and barrel numbers match and appear to have been made with the same dies, the gun has a replacement side plate and a mismatched sear bar. I suspect it was made up from an earlier barrel/receiver and a later frame, made servicable (perhaps by the mysterious unit that applied the deathhead) and placed into service. The metal is in good shape but it has litte original finish remaining. It has seen a lot of use and I would love to know the story it could tell. __________________ If it's made after 1918...it's a reproduction

07-01-2005, 07:35 PM	#1
Jan C Still User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Box 240188, Douglas, Alaska, 99824 Posts: 463 Thanks: 0 Thanked 52 Times in 32 Posts	BÃ?Â¶hler Steel Barrels. I am constructing a table of DWM Lugers with BÃ?Â¶hler Steel barrels to present in a revision of Volume I. Please supply year, serial number and BÃ?Â¶ number. A start is presented below. Thanks Jan Table 5.5 DWM LUGERS WITH BÃ??HLER STEEL BARRELS. 1913 DWM, sn 1612, BÃ?Â¶ 25, with stock lug, Death Head 1913 DWM, sn 4983a, BÃ?Â¶ 1913 DWM, sn 6389a, BÃ?Â¶ 1913 DWM, sn 7240a, BÃ?Â¶ 23 1913 DWM, sn 528b, BÃ?Â¶ 24 1913 DWM, sn 199b, BÃ?Â¶ 25 1913 DWM, sn 1186b, BÃ?Â¶ 25, no stock lug 1913 DWM, sn 1386b, BÃ?Â¶ 25 1913 DWM, sn 1596b, BÃ?Â¶ 24, no stock lug, 1913 DWM, sn 1597b, BÃ?Â¶ 24 1913 DWM, sn 2555b, BÃ?Â¶ 24 1913 DWM, sn 4240b, BÃ?Â¶26 1913 DWM, sn 6286b, BÃ?Â¶26, with stock lug 1914 DWM, sn 468, BÃ?Â¶ 26 1914 DWM, sn 1839, BÃ?Â¶ 25 1914 DWM, sn 2502, BÃ?Â¶ 27 1914 DWM, sn 3440, BÃ?Â¶27, 1920 stamp 1914 DWM, sn 4731, BÃ?Â¶ 29 1914 DWM, sn 7738 BÃ?Â¶ 29 1914 DWM, sn 9399, Bo31 1914 DWM, sn 37a, BÃ?Â¶ 30 1914 DWM, sn 880a, BÃ?Â¶ 31 1914 DWM, sn 1439a, BÃ?Â¶ 291914 DWM, sn 1490a, BÃ?Â¶ 31 1914 DWM, sn 7738 BÃ?Â¶ 29

07-01-2005, 07:55 PM	#2
Edward Tinker Super Moderator Eternal Lifer LugerForum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: North of Spokane, WA Posts: 15,916 Thanks: 1,992 Thanked 4,507 Times in 2,081 Posts	Jan, 1914 added on your forum, Ed

07-01-2005, 09:38 PM	#4
drbuster User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: San Mateo, California Posts: 1,432 Thanks: 2 Thanked 71 Times in 56 Posts	Jan, 1913 DWM #1696b, Bo 24

07-01-2005, 11:42 PM	#6
Jan C Still User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Box 240188, Douglas, Alaska, 99824 Posts: 463 Thanks: 0 Thanked 52 Times in 32 Posts	Ed, Micharl, Herbert, and Bill Thanks for the information. Table updated. Jan

07-02-2005, 12:04 PM	#7
Vlim Moderator Lifetime LugerForum Patron Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: Europe Posts: 5,047 Thanks: 1,034 Thanked 3,947 Times in 1,198 Posts	Hi, Some info on Boehler Steel from a 1913 publication 'Moderne Gewehrfabrikation'. GebrÃ?Â¼der Boehler A.-G. in Wien und Berlin liefern aus ihrem Stahlwerk Kapfenberg LaufstÃ?Â¤be fÃ?Â¼r alle Zwecke. Die LÃ?Â¤ufe fÃ?Â¼r die Ã?Â¶sterreichische Armee. Sowie ein groÃ??er Teil der deutschen InfanteriegewehrlÃ?Â¤ufe und sÃ?Â¤mtliche MaschinengewehrlÃ?Â¤ufe sind aus Boehlerstahl gefertigt. Dieser Stahl trÃ?Â¤gt die Schutzmarken (Abb. 3 u. 4). FÃ?Â¼r Jagdgewehre liefert die Firma auÃ??erdem den Ã¢??Blitz"- und den Ã¢??Antinit"-Stahl (Abb. 5 u. 6). Letzterer Stahl ist ein vÃ?Â¶llig rostsicheres Material von groÃ??er ZÃ?Â¤higkeit, das trotz hohem Nickelgehaltes leicht zu bearbeiten ist. Translation: The Boehler Brothers A.G. in Vienna and Berlin produce barrel steel for all applications in their Kapfenberg Steel works. The Barrels for the Austrian army as well as a large part of the German infantry rifle barrels and many machinegun barrels are made from Boehler steel. This steel bears the trademarks shown in images 3 and 4. For hunting rifles the company only produces the "Blitz" and "Antinit" steel (images 5 and 6). This steel is a completely rust proof high strength material, that although it has a high nickle content, is easy to work on. The advert comes from the same publication.

07-02-2005, 01:15 PM	#8
Jan C Still User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Box 240188, Douglas, Alaska, 99824 Posts: 463 Thanks: 0 Thanked 52 Times in 32 Posts	Gerben Thanks for the Bohler Steel translation, information, and illustrations. I would request to use the translation and illustrations in a book? Thanks Jan

07-02-2005, 05:18 PM	#9
Vlim Moderator Lifetime LugerForum Patron Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: Europe Posts: 5,047 Thanks: 1,034 Thanked 3,947 Times in 1,198 Posts	Jan, No problem. The official titel of the book is 'Moderne Gewehrfabrikation' by Otto Maretsch. Published in 1913 by Verlag von Bernh. Friedr. Voigt in Leipzig. It also has some pretty rare, although not very nicely printed, photographs of rifle manufacturing and assembly at Fabrique Nationale, Mauser and DWM. If you want, I can get you a digital copy of the book, as I have scanned and recognized (OCR) the book as it's pretty fragile and I tend to handle it as little as possible. The original cover: Steel forging at DWM, around 1910 - 1913:

07-02-2005, 07:03 PM	#10
Jan C Still User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Box 240188, Douglas, Alaska, 99824 Posts: 463 Thanks: 0 Thanked 52 Times in 32 Posts	Gerben Thanks for the very interesting information. Jan

07-03-2005, 11:16 AM	#11
Lyn Islaub Lifer Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Phoenix, AZ Posts: 435 Thanks: 3 Thanked 152 Times in 72 Posts	Jan, 1914 DWM, S/N 37a, Bo30. Lyn

07-03-2005, 05:58 PM	#12
ken d Patron LugerForum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: louisville ky Posts: 277 Thanks: 31 Thanked 9 Times in 8 Posts	Jan: 1914, DWM, s/n 9399, Bo31 Regards Ken D

07-03-2005, 06:07 PM	#13
Jan C Still User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Box 240188, Douglas, Alaska, 99824 Posts: 463 Thanks: 0 Thanked 52 Times in 32 Posts	Idoman and Ken Thanks for the information. Table updated. Jan

07-16-2005, 02:25 AM	#15
Jan C Still User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Box 240188, Douglas, Alaska, 99824 Posts: 463 Thanks: 0 Thanked 52 Times in 32 Posts	Hugh Thanks for the information. Table updated. Jan

07-16-2005, 11:41 AM	#16
Lyn Islaub Lifer Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Phoenix, AZ Posts: 435 Thanks: 3 Thanked 152 Times in 72 Posts	Jan, This table might get even more interesting if all of these pistols had the presence or absense of the stock lug recorded. I've read that the stock lugs were added in 1913, even though some 1914s also did not have them. What I'm curious about is why the addition of the stock lug appeared to be random. I have 1913 s/n 1852 without a stock lug, yet the listing above shows 1913 s/n 1612 with a stock lug. Weimar Lugers on page 42 shows 1914 s/n 8837a without a stock lug . Page 43 shows 1914 s/n 1961a with a stock lug. Is there any known explanation as to why DWM's producion line produced these many variables within such a short run of s/ns?? Up till now I had been under the impression that the frames were forged with the stock lug as part of the one piece forging. The way the stock lugs are intersperded within these serial number ranges, it almost appears as it could have been a welded attachment. Your thoughts? Thx, Lyn

07-16-2005, 01:38 PM	#18
Dwight Gruber User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Portland, Oregon Posts: 3,890 Thanks: 0 Thanked 1,282 Times in 424 Posts	Lyn, One might hazard a WAG that frames were not necessarily assembled into guns in the order that they were manufacturerd, but rather went into a parts "bin" and were retrieved for assembly randomly. One might hazard a much more speculative WAG, that there was more than one fabrication line for frames and it took time to get each of them converted to stock lugs. --Dwight

07-16-2005, 06:32 PM	#19
Lyn Islaub Lifer Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Phoenix, AZ Posts: 435 Thanks: 3 Thanked 152 Times in 72 Posts	Ron, Thx for the input. I had thought that my 1913 s/n 1852 to be one of the lower numbers reported and your 1612 surprised me. Dwight's comments about drawing frames from a parts "bin" could make sense, but with only 10,000 1912s and 35,000 1913s being manufactured one would have to wonder how many frames would have been made in advance of the dictate to configure going forward production with stock lugs. Jan could have the answer and if not might be interested in expanding his survey to see if there is any consistancy in the inconsistancy of stock lug incorporation. Lyn

07-22-2005, 10:57 AM	#20
maddog350gt User Join Date: Oct 2004 Location: Washougal WA Posts: 170 Thanks: 0 Thanked 2 Times in 2 Posts	Jan, 1913 DWM Sn 9426a no lug Bo:23 1914 DWM Sn 2227 no suffix Bo:28 Bob M.