1900 miss-match what do I have?

[MichaelH]

Greetings! I've away from the forum for too long! I recently purchased a 1900 Luger that is quite miss-matched for a shooter. The frame is 13XXC, the only part that matches that is the magazine, and the only magazine I have that will fit in the gun is the one that came with it. The frame has the early long low checkered safety. None of the other parts that are numbered match each other or the frame. The barrel is not numbered. I'm not familiar with 1900s, is it normal for other Luger mags to not fit? The grips show some machining on the inside, but also some obvious hand fitting. The right grip has a palm swell, not too large, but there. There are no proof marks anywhere. I've been shooting Lugers since the 1970s and I always look for miss-matched ones for shooters. I've not had one before quite as miss-matched as this. I've shot it with PPU ammo, other that the extractor having lost its temper it works fine.

[Ron Wood]

Need some photos badly! The only 1900 Lugers with non-interchangeable magazines are the very early unrelieved frame guns that required the "flat button" magazines. A frame with a 13XXC serial number is way too high to be an unrelieved frame and a flat button magazine would not be numbered. Is the "C" really a suffix of the serial number or located below the serial number?
Ron

[MichaelH]

Thank you for your reply. The magazine that works has a slightly smaller button than the magazine from my Artillery Luger. That magazine will not go in because the button sticks up too high. On the magazine with the 1900 in C is below the rest of the serial number. Most of the other mags (including the one for my post war Mauser 29/70) will go part way in and then jam as the mag well is too narrow or short. Some mags jam at the top rounded part of the mag well as the radius of the mag well at that point does not match the shape of the front of the magazine. I'll try to get some pictures.

[Ron Wood]

Thank you! Please include the frame serial number photo and a photo of the bottom of the grip where the magazine is inserted.
Ron

[MichaelH]

These should be pictures of my 1900. Also a 1920 Finnish 9mm.

[MichaelH]

Still learning how this works.

[MichaelH]

Sill learning!

[Mac Cat]

This appears to be a very early 1900 model
The barrel is a 7.65mm (120mm ??) - is it unmarked ?
The serial number is 13x2 (no suffix).

What makes you think it's a mismatched luger ?
I think it is a 1900 Commercial.
Does it have commercial stamps (B, U, or G)?

It is called "unrelieved" luger because the magazine channel was not cut deep
in the earliest lugers. The early magazines had a very flat loading button.
Only the very early magazines will fit in it.

It seems right to me:
It's a long frame.
It has the safety in the up position to fire and no hold-open.
There is no lanyard loop and it has the wide trigger.
It has the checkered safety lever.
I think the Swiss model would have a wider grip safety (not sure).

The small parts are strawed, too.

Please provide more photos of the chamber, top, right receiver area, rear toggle and the barrel.

The inscription on the left ear is unusual - someone used an electro pencil to inscribe it with the word "Gesichert" (for secured or safe position).

[MichaelH]

Thanks for all the information! I took some measurements of my various Lugers. The 1900 at the round part of the magwell at the top is 0.446" wide. All my other Lugers are about 0.475" wide at the same point. The feedway to clear the magazine button total width of the magwell on the 1900 is 0.630" The other Lugers is about 0.668". The font on the "C" at the end of the serial number is not a font I've seen on other Lugers. I wonder when this gun was re-built if it was "force matched" to the magazine as it would actually fit in the gun. The magazine with it has the later staked in follower button. OK, the frame and magazine are # 1396C with a capital roman "C". The barrel is unnumbered. Barrel extension/upper receiver 78. Breechblock 83. Center toggle link 40. Rear toggle 18, Sideplate 54. Trigger (narrow trigger) 72. Grip Safety 10. If I break any parts on this gun the replacement may actually make the gun more matching.

[MichaelH]

I got my extractor so I took out the 1900 Luger today. The new manufactured Lugerman extractor fit perfectly,

worked perfectly, and looked perfect.

I had two different brands of ammo, PPU and Fiocchi "Heritage". The Fiocchi has a shorter overall length

than the PPU, but worked perfectly in both the magazine that came with the pistol and the Triple K magazine

I was able to modify to fit in the very early 1900 frame. The PPU ammo worked fine in the original magazine,

but the breach did not close completely on the fourth round with the Triple K magazine. A slight push with my

left thumb was enough to close the breach.

Ejection was to the right slightly and back about 7 feet. The Fiocchi brass was grouped close together, the PPU

more spread out.

The groups with both types of ammo were about 4 inches high at 25 yards. Group size was not that great, I will

blame it on not being used to the trigger pull yet.

All in all, a 123 year old pistol made up from totally miss-matched parts worked almost perfectly after the

replacement of one part.

I'm pleased. Now to get used to that trigger.

[Mac Cat]

Thanks for the range report !
I'm glad it works well, too.

It's certainly an interesting luger.

[MichaelH]

Well I got the 1900 “No Matching Parts” Luger out and shot it for the first time this year. I had opened up the mag well a bit and now had several magazines that would fit in this gun. The weather was perfect. The gun worked pretty well, the magazine for my 29/70 Mauser Luger often required I give the toggle a slap to get it to close. My groups were only fair, all on the paper at 25 yards. I had not done any shooting since mid November, and this was only the third time I had shot this pistol. I fired Finnochi “Legend’ ammo PPU ammo, and 10 rounds of handloaed ammo using a 78 gr coated lead bullet meant for 32 S&W short. I also use this bullet for 7.65 French Long in my 1935A pistol and an H&R break top 32 S&W. A few of the handloads had to be tapped closed, otherwise they shot like the other ammo.

Also fired that day, my 29/70 Swiss style Mauser Luger w/6 inch barrel in 9mm and a MKVI Webley converted to use downloaded .45 ACP with half moon clips.

[MichaelH]

I have now had the "no matching parts" 1900 Luger out shooting several times this year. The last couple of trips functioning is 100% with my two different lead bullet reloads. I have four recently purchased Meggar magazines I use exclusively. On a good day groups are about 3 1/2" at 25 yards two handed. From a rest I can get most of the shots into 1 1/2". This gun has a short takeup then a quite hard trigger pull. My 9mm Lugers have a much longer takeup with a considerably lighter trigger pull. I've gotten some spare parts for this gun as I enjoy shooting it.

[ithacaartist]

Sounds good. (BTW, the bottoms of commercial mags were not numbered.)

[Randall_G]

Very cool!

Seems you are one of the few people brave enough to shoot a 1900. Though, considering the mixture of part numbers, you picked the best possible example to actually shoot.

And lol at your writing if a parts breaks, the replacement may make it more matching.

Finally, I fired my 9mm 29/70 w/6" barrel last weekend. Functioned perfectly.

[MichaelH]

Randall thanks for the kind words. I am slowly gathering spares for it as I really enjoy shooting it. Someone used this as a "project gun". The grips have a palm swell on the right grip, and there are marks on the frame from the grips being checkered. The frame has been re-blued at least once. The bore is a little rough, but still capable of more accuracy than I can currently. I also have a Mauser 29/70 9mm 6" barrel. I've had it about 20 years. I found with mine it didn't like any factory ammo I could get, and was not reliable with as much Unique powder as I thought was safe. I switched to 700x powder and the gun works perfectly. Regarding other comments on the 29/70, my original magazine is unreliable, modern Meggar mags fit loosely, but function and do fall out.

[Randall_G]

I suppose it might be nice to find proper reproduction grips for the pistol. Would be easy if it were a 1908 w/o the grip safety; many choices at reasonable prices. But near as I can tell, currently only Lugerman is selling reproduction grips to fit a 1900/1906 w/grip safety. Nearly $200.

Gotta wonder how old the (flat) main spring is. Perhaps replaced along with many of the other parts?

[ithacaartist]

Grips for the P.08 can be modified on their backsides to allow clearance for the grip safety with a bit of craftsmanship and a Dremel or similar tool. Bakelite VoPo grips would be even easier to modify, since only some of its rim needs to be filed down to let the lever slip past.

[aldo35]

I bought a pair of grips on eBay from Thailand needed very little work to fit to grip safety.

[Randall_G]

So I have an extra set of P08 aftermarket grips I would be willing to sacrifice to a 1906 grip safety conversion gone wrong.

I think I can easily manage creating a functional and reasonably aesthetic opening for the grip safety, red circle labeled "1."

I'm thinking the area within the yellow rectangle ("2") will be more challenging. In particular considering the grip must be modified to accommodate the full length of the grip safety. As I see it:

1. The entire area roughly within the yellow rectangle needs to be excavated.

2. A tab must remain to match the opening in the 1906 grip frame, roughly the area in the green rectangle ("3"):
a. If the tab is too large, the grip will not fit within the 1906
frame.
b. If the tab is too small, the grip may be loose (?).

I suspect this might not be too hard for someone who works with wood frequently. That's not the case for me, so not certain if I'm going to proceed with the project.